What's The Language Revival Really Like?

Topical debate
User avatar
Marhak
Posts: 11075
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:46 am

Re: What's The Language Revival Really Like?

Post by Marhak » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:48 pm

Lostwithiel was free gratis, Keith. Why weren't you there? Or the the previous ones. I was there. Many of us were.

dolly pentreath
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: What's The Language Revival Really Like?

Post by dolly pentreath » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:10 pm

Pieter Charles said:
Unfortunately, regardless of how I feel about it, I cannot let the overwhelming negativity and destructiveness that you and factotum display here on C24 about an event you clearly know very little about pass without comment.
In replying to this I can hardly improve on Pieter's own words.

I think that you, Pieter, are "... damaging the revival, perhaps only to a small extent, but nevertheless damaging it. And all because you're totally blinded by an overriding belief that you and only you know what is right and how things should be done. It's unforgivable."

Pieter, Factotum said he found the Pennseythun too expensive to attend. I agreed and showed that the sort of accommodation that the affordable Cornish Language Weekends used is still available and has only increased in cost very slightly due to the economics of the self-catering holiday trade.

That is not being negative - if Cornish Language Weekends can be made more affordable - in fact, far more affordable - that has to be a good thing, doesn't it? Isn't it positive to bring this to people's attention?

And isn't this constructive (offering an idea that may be exploited to the general good) not "destructive" as you declare it to be? Or do you regard any criticism whatsoever of organisation with which you are involved as a personal affront? (Better not start discussing airlines then, had we!)
What you say about 'the good old days' may be factual.
Even though you may not have attended any of the affordable Language Weekends, older hands will, I am sure, confirm what we say. And there are always back copies of An Gannas and the Kowethas archives.
Your comments about today's arrangements on the other hand are nothing more than supposition with a good measure of bile.


I quoted the figures from your own posting - no supposition about it. As for bile - anyone reading this debate can judge for themselves who is the most bilious - not to mention choleric. Calm down, please - it must be playing Old Harry with your blood pressure. It's not good for you, you know.
Your attempts to undermine the hard work of others deserves to be challenged.
I was attempting to point out how the Language Weekend could be improved, as was Factotum. That's not 'undermining' - that's making constructive criticism.
I think you're damaging the revival, perhaps only to a small extent, but nevertheless damaging it. And all because you're totally blinded by an overriding belief that you and only you know what is right and how things should be done. It's unforgivable.
"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye".
Meanwhile, how are your plans coming on for the affordable event?
I don't intend competing with existing Cornish language organisations. Fragmentation is the curse of the language movement - a situation not helped by MAGA and the whole SWF fiasco.

However, if a language organisation wants to pick up the idea of an affordable Language Weekend - modeled on how they used to be organised - and run with it, then I'd be delighted.

And I'm sure a lot of other people would be, too.

CJenkin
Posts: 1332
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:01 pm

Re: What's The Language Revival Really Like?

Post by CJenkin » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:08 pm

CJenkin wrote:I'm sure if people were sincere in their criticisms that they would have attended the Kowethas AGM and voiced their concerns? Dolly and Keith were definitely there right?
I'm sure the pennseythun will be a great success as it was last year - yes things can be pricey but if you're on a tight budget there are ways you can save money and if you live in Cornwall or indeed elsewhere there's nothing to stop you booking cheaper accommodation or travelling up for the day.
Perhaps what pieter was arguing was that this is not the right place for criticism (constructive or not). I'm all in favour of positive contributions to the language.

carrek
Posts: 735
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:48 pm

Re: What's The Language Revival Really Like?

Post by carrek » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:46 pm

dolly pentreath wrote:I don't intend competing with existing Cornish language organisations. Fragmentation is the curse of the language movement - a situation not helped by MAGA and the whole SWF fiasco.
Maga and the SWF have brought the factions closer together, not further apart. Marhak's tales of good discussion with Ken George fill me with hope for the future. Would that have happened without them?

Jenny
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:41 am

Re: What's The Language Revival Really Like?

Post by Jenny » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:23 pm

Today's language weekends are much better than they used to be and I wouldn't want to go back to the way they were. I gave up going after one awful sleepless weekend literally freezing in a caravan and having to wear two coats gloves scarf and hat for the day sessions. It's not possible to learn anything in subzero conditions.
And yes you are bilious, dolly. What an excellent name for such an obvious clone. Just 3 posts on c24 before you just have to name and have a go at Loveday Jenkin, blaming her for what you don't like and telling us she burbles. She does more for Cornwall and Cornish than almost anyone else I know. So she she has been burbling about beimg more professional has she, well that is just what your alterego factotum has said is needed in previous posts on c24 so half of you will be pleased. You'll be doing well if you do a 10th of what she does, so give it a rest, eh?

pietercharles
Posts: 1182
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:51 am

Re: What's The Language Revival Really Like?

Post by pietercharles » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:30 pm

CJenkin wrote:
Perhaps what pieter was arguing was that this is not the right place for criticism (constructive or not).
That's correct, but it needs explaining.

Firstly, I think that anyone who is unhappy with the arrangements made by any of the language organisations, be it the Kesva, MAGA, the Kowethas, Agan Tavas or anybody else, should first talk to the organisations themselves. This would give both sides the opportunity to explain their point of view and explore solutions. Neither factotum nor dolly appear to have done this and one can only assume that they think that letting rip in public is a more fruitful, constructive approach, however ill-informed it might be. I think it's the exact opposite.

Secondly, whatever I or anybody else thinks about the way in which these organisations go about furthering the revival and servicing the needs of the community, I think we have to be out there encouraging people to get involved and find out for themselves what the language movement is all about. Which is why I started this thread. I was trying to get people involved. The response from factotum and dolly was again the exact opposite, and wholly discouraging. They decided to use the thread as an excuse to air their personal gripes about various aspects of the language weekends, calling them 'exclusive, offensive, insulting, unprofessional' and suggesting that they devalue the contribution attendees make to the revival, aim to provide lucrative business for hoteliers, do not give 'punters' value for money, offer a pig in a poke, and are part of a 'secret society' approach to the language. None of it is true.

Thankfully neither factotum nor dolly are representative of anything much other than their own apparently bitter and twisted prejudices. Unfortunately they've probably already put a number of people off discovering that truth for themselves.

User avatar
factotum
Posts: 1320
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:15 pm

Re: What's The Language Revival Really Like?

Post by factotum » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:29 am

Just to clarify that I don't know who Dolly is, except that she isn't me, although she is saying much the same things as I, and indeed has explained some aspects of "what has been lost" rather better than I have. The old w/e's were going from strength to strength, and for those who could attend had expanded to almost a full week. Then I was unable to attend for a few years (other commitments, clashing dates ... no one to blame for that), and when I was again available, they'd somehow disappeared. Anyway, Dolly, thanks for the support although things being as they are now, I can't see you currying many favours, even at this time of night.

How is Cornish to be brought out into the daylight, if arrangements for events etc. can't even be discussed in public?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests