The English - Exponents of Cultural Genocide

Topical debate
Cormorant
Posts: 1042
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:04 pm

Re: The English - Exponents of Cultural Genocide

Post by Cormorant » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:48 pm

Article 3
Indigenous peoples have the right to self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.


Self-determination, Marhak.

The ballot box.

dolly pentreath
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: The English - Exponents of Cultural Genocide

Post by dolly pentreath » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:59 pm

Please spare us the simplistic twaddle, Cormorant.

Or do you really not understand how the electoral system is weighted against small parties, how MK would have to stand in constituencies outside Cornwall to qualify for TV election address space, how the Euro constituency was repeatedly engineered to include bits of Plymouth on 'population' criteria - then, when inward migration rendered that argument useless, they went on to a so-called 'regional' system...etc.etc. etc.

User avatar
Marhak
Posts: 11075
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:46 am

Re: The English - Exponents of Cultural Genocide

Post by Marhak » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:51 pm

LIke the ballot box for an unelected and imposed South West Regional Assembly, perhaps? The ballot box for an unelected and equally unwanted SWRDA ? The ballot box for a unitary authority no one but the Lib-Dems wanted? The ballot box that deprived us of an MEP and made us share with a "South West" stretching almost to the Midlands? We never saw a ballot box for any of these, but they were making decisons that heavily affected us, and they were spending our money.

Ballot box? Spare me, Shaggy.

User avatar
TGG
Posts: 1838
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:08 pm
Contact:

Re: The English - Exponents of Cultural Genocide

Post by TGG » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:22 am

by tex » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:22 pm
TGG wrote:
by tex » 12 Mar 2011 12:46
OK with this wealth of knowledge you seem to have regarding this so called “genocide” What are you doing with it? Apart from telling all and sundry on here that you know more than what they know. I ask once again What are you doing with it? What court case is pending if any? Or is it all just yap?
Why are you even interested in asking any of that? All that you need to know is that all that needs to be done is being done and since you both have closed minds to the possibilities, it is better that you do not know, for your own peace of mind.
Well there you go, you ask a silly question expect a silly answer. It is so obvious they are clinging to straws.
Only problem is the more they keep spouting out this garbage, there is always a chance that some poor gullible soul will take it all in.
The only thing that is obvious is that you have no idea what it is that you are attempting to discuss. From a personal perspective, I have to say that I am not clutching at straws at all. What I seek to achieve is that those, who have been, and are being, gullibly taken in by the EIS propaganda, will ‘wake up and smell the coffee’ and finally realise that they have something very unique and valuable to protect and pass on to future generations.
by tex » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:37 pm
Mike you do not seem to take anyone “seriously”, not even the moderator, your last two posts have had nothing to do with the topic, but never mind it is OK for you isn’t it.

For those who carry on preaching this “genocide” without coming up with some good evidence, is just degrading the true needs of the Cornish people. Who is going to take the Cornish “seriously” with statements like these being spread about?
The problem is that you have shown, over time, that you are unable (or unwilling) to recognise the evidence that has been placed before you. I would certainly be intrigued to know in what way your presumed lack of ‘good evidence’ can degrade the “true needs” of the Cornish people? Are you really suggesting that ‘others’ are so shallow as to be unable to differentiate between those in need and those that expound certain socio-political truths?
by tex » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:51 am
Mike wrote: Oh, I take the moderator quite seriously and one of his greatest achievements has been to render trolls like yourself to a neutered state just making yourselves look silly with your elementary repetitive questions.
Yes it may seem "repetitive" trying to get to the bottom of these "genocide" accusations, what self-respecting person wouldn’t want to get to the bottom of it? For Cornwall with all its genuine needs does not need "genocide" introduced to muddy the waters. Or is it all part of fabricating a good reason? So more Cornish people will say "We are not English we are Cornish"?
What is repetitive is that the same comments are pushed, but there is no intention to discuss. I am pleased to note that you feel that it is the duty of any self-respecting person to get to the bottom of it. Why, then, do you not?

There is a lot in your posts that is repetitive. You subjectively imply yet again “muddy the waters”. How? Why? The reasons have been given many times throughout the life of this site. In one sentence you talk about self-respecting persons and in the next you illustrate that you have not taken on board anything that has been written and said here. It is a search for the truth and the ability for all Cornish people to have all the information that will allow them to make decisions that affect themselves and others now and in the future, based on their history and not someone elses.
by tex » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:48 pm
Marhak wrote: Just what would be fabricated about that?
And the “that” being “genocide”.

Could it be this "genocide" is all part of fabricating a good reason? So MORE Cornish people will say "We are not English we are Cornish"? Giving them this "genocide" reason in the hope it will build up divisions. Laying down the poison if you like.
More repetition, but this time there is more than a hint of desperation, in order to create an illusion that the status quo is always right. If that is what you think, then you are not (in my book) a self-respecting person.
A - by Cormorant » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:52 pm
Lemkins own draft of his work on cultural genocide:

The original draft of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, prepared by the United Nations (UN) Secretariat and based on the work of Lemkin, included definitions of physical genocide, biological genocide, and cultural genocide. The latter was defined as follows:

Destroying the specific characteristics of the group by:

•(a) forcible transfer of children to another human group; or
•(b) forced and systematic exile of individuals representing the culture of a group; or
•(c) prohibition of the use of the national language even in private intercourse; or
•(d) systematic destruction of books printed in the national language or of religious works or prohibition of new publications; or
•(e) systematic destruction of historical or religious monuments or their diversion to alien uses, destruction or dispersion of documents and objects of historical, artistic, or religious value and of objects used in religious worship.


Which of these apply to modern-day Cornwall?
B - by Cormorant » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:58 pm
The original draft of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, prepared by the United Nations (UN) Secretariat and based on the work of Lemkin, included definitions of physical genocide, biological genocide, and cultural genocide. The latter was defined as follows:

Source, TGG?

See above.

And those children ripped away from their families and relatives, ?

Happened to children all over Britain and Ireland.

Another example of using the history of the majority and turning it into the history of the persecuted minority
C - by Cormorant » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:03 pm
Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

http://tinyurl.com/xyw1

There we are TGG...

Genocide as described, with source, date etc.
Unfortunately, your quote B does not answer my request for the source of your quote A above and your quote C, with source is nothing to do with any question that I have posed to you. Your clarification on their relationship to each other would be much appreciated by all.

You describe your quote A as, “Lemkin’s own draft of his work on cultural genocide”, which of course it is not. The preamble you quote clearly states that it is “based on the work of Lemkin” and means something entirely different. The list included, however, is very revealing and I would have no hesitation in ticking both ‘a’ and ‘e’ based on the failure to give Cornish children a Cornish education (our Cornish future) and the misappropriation of historical sites in the name of England. There are, of course, also the constitutional issues that would fall under the 'political' technique of genocide. However, anything to do with the Imperial States and cultural genocide has inherent problems for minorities, because of conflicting vested self-interests of the majority group. Our case is unique to us and we must identify the relevant facets of the process. A hostile media would certainly slot into one or more of the techniques as would, also, the refusal of the Government to even discuss its position regarding the Cornish and the FCNM.

Your pointless quote B also contained a suggestion, which I would purposefully misquote, namely,
“Another example of using the history of the majority and turning it into the history of the oppressed minority” - Check out the Preface Here
or, possibly,
“Another example of using the history of the oppressed minority and turning it into the history of the ”persecuting majority”.

You follow that with quote C, which only points to the UN Convention on Genocide. I can only guess at your reason for doing so, but I would encourage you and others to acquaint yourselves with the many ways that it is being questioned. Being good little members of the EIS and quoting from ‘official’ sources, is not the whole story, because there is a lot of things going on in the background that challenges its narrow focus on ‘physical’ and ‘biological’ forms of genocide. The Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities (FCNM) is but one positive result of this ongoing questioning dialogue.

Perhaps you might do the honourable thing and respond to all the points that I have made to you within this discussion?


TGGFor The (Real)Reason Why!


edited to add meaningful link to purposeful misquote. 16th March - 11:43
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE! -
They declare their Cornishness with pride
Whilst oblivious to our genocide
That England imposes
With smiles and Red Roses
Where the innocents, so gullibly, reside.


Cormorant
Posts: 1042
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:04 pm

Re: The English - Exponents of Cultural Genocide

Post by Cormorant » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:24 pm

Will this so?

Wickedpedia I'm afraid, but, (as far as I know), they are not a part of the "EnglIsh Imperialist State"

http://tinyurl.com/nactb5

User avatar
TGG
Posts: 1838
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:08 pm
Contact:

Re: The English - Exponents of Cultural Genocide

Post by TGG » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:54 pm


What makes you think that I am not aware of such information? I am not cursed, like some, with a closed mind to the international discussion on the subject of Genocide, within which various techniques, such as 'cultural' are included. You really are a waste of time and space and this will be the last response, from me, to any of your posts.

You could not even muster enough commonsense to discuss why you feel that the link that you provided is 'important' to you, or how it in any way answers any of my comments made to you, or anyone else.

TGGFor The (Real)Reason Why!
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE! -
They declare their Cornishness with pride
Whilst oblivious to our genocide
That England imposes
With smiles and Red Roses
Where the innocents, so gullibly, reside.


Cormorant
Posts: 1042
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:04 pm

Re: The English - Exponents of Cultural Genocide

Post by Cormorant » Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:26 pm

TGG wrote:
What makes you think that I am not aware of such information? I am not cursed, like some, with a closed mind to the international discussion on the subject of Genocide, within which various techniques, such as 'cultural' are included. You really are a waste of time and space and this will be the last response, from me, to any of your posts.

You could not even muster enough commonsense to discuss why you feel that the link that you provided is 'important' to you, or how it in any way answers any of my comments made to you, or anyone else.

TGGFor The (Real)Reason Why!
You really are a waste of time and space and this will be the last response, from me, to any of your posts.

That is your right,of course.


Moderator's Comment: 17th March - 12:16

A comment has been temporarily deleted and may be replaced, when/if there is an appropriate statement added which can prove the accuracy of the allegation.

User avatar
TGG
Posts: 1838
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:08 pm
Contact:

Re: The English - Exponents of Cultural Genocide

Post by TGG » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:57 pm


The following quotes are extracts from various other posts contained within this site and particularly relevant to repeat here.
With all such grand phrases as social inclusion and equal opportunities, the Cornish are consciously being socially excluded (unless they comply) and with no form of redress or acknowledgement of 'Cornish' aspirations. I will, again, put this process into context, by quoting Raphael Lemkin's definition of Genocide lifted out of Wikipedia.
Lemkin's broader concerns over genocide, as set out in his "Axis Rule in Occupied Europe", also embraced what may be considered as non-physical, namely, psychological acts of genocide which he personally defined as:
"Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups. Genocide is directed against the national group as an entity, and the actions involved are directed against individuals, not in their individual capacity, but as members of the national group."
"Genocide has two phases: one, destruction of the national pattern of the oppressed group; the other, the imposition of the national pattern of the oppressor. This imposition, in turn, may be made upon the oppressed population which is allowed to remain or upon the territory alone, after removal of the population and the colonization by the oppressor's own nationals."
He also outlined his various observed "techniques" [9] on achieving genocide which ranged from:
· Political
· Social
· Cultural [10][11]
· Economic
· Biological
· Physical:
······ Endangering Health
······ Mass Killing
· Religious
· Moral
This is another quote regularly used from here
"Cultural genocide ultimately was excluded from the final Convention, except for a limited prohibition on the forcible transfer of a group’s children. The drafters acknowledged that the removal of children was physically and biologically destructive but further recognized that indoctrinating children into the customs,language, and values of a foreign group was “tantamount to the destruction of the [child’s] group, whose future depended on that next generation.”
The same site also includes this, with active links:
Cultural genocide thus plays a subsidiary role in our present understanding of genocide and group destruction. But this is a product of the political realities of treaty negotiation between states rather than any limitation inherent in the concept. The Convention’s drafters acknowledged the legitimacy of cultural genocide, and indicated that it might be addressed through other international instruments. Indeed, an individual right to cultural existence was recognized in the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights and subsequently affirmed in the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. And to accommodate the erosion of traditional geographic and economic boundaries, more recent treaties such as the Charter of the European Union and the Council of Europe’s Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities contain anti-assimilation language and create express obligations to respect cultural diversity. Culture also is protected through such specific-purpose instruments as the European Cultural Convention and the Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict.
TGGFor The (Real)Reason Why![/size]
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE! -
They declare their Cornishness with pride
Whilst oblivious to our genocide
That England imposes
With smiles and Red Roses
Where the innocents, so gullibly, reside.


Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests