UKIP No1

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tex
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Re: UKIP No1

Post by tex » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:48 pm

Stephen Richardson wrote:
tex wrote: the same goes for those who wish to fly a flag of their choice in Cornwall, if some Cornish nationalist take offence so be it. Equating it with the “swastika” and the Jews” is a mile over the top. If you and others genuinely feel like this, I really feel sorry for you, and for those who think Mk is the party of the future.
This is typical of the arrogant English imperialist attitude.

Cornish people (including cornish nationalists) tell me I should be proud to be English - it is hard not to be ashamed when I read stuff like this! :(
Even if it comes from a Cornishman, you do surprise me Stephen, perhaps when you have lived in Cornwall a little longer you will get out and about and meets some Cornish people who do not have such closed minds.

zennorman2
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Re: UKIP No1

Post by zennorman2 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:54 pm

tex wrote:
CJenkin wrote:It is not the flag that is disliked it is the preverted use of that flag to diminish other equally valid identities that exist.
This is not about divisions and separatism it is about justice for a minority identity. The cornish people should take their place in the world working with all peoples but they can't do that when those more ignorant label them as 'English'.
How many of the 520,000 population of Cornwall, are in fact English or consider themselves to be English? The few nationalists that dislike the use of the flag are minimal, compared to the whole population of Cornwall, just look at MKs voting figures, insignificant to the 520,000 population of Cornwall.
Tex, you are confusing things here. Firstly, there are various parish surveys which would indicate that in parts of Cornwall 30-40% consider themselves Cornish. More importantly, not all people who consider themselves Cornish would vote MK. I know lots of Cornish people who don't and I only voted MK myself in a GE last time. Also, the whole population cannot vote because some of them are children.

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Marhak
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Re: UKIP No1

Post by Marhak » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:07 am

Who are told at school that they're English under the National Curriculum brainwash-and-assimilate system.

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Kitto
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Re: UKIP No1

Post by Kitto » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:19 am

Marhak wrote:Who are told at school that they're English under the National Curriculum brainwash-and-assimilate system.
Actually, I think this is what us English complain about as well, as we are taught that we're British, with no mention of English.

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Stephen Richardson
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Re: UKIP No1

Post by Stephen Richardson » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:24 am

Kitto wrote: Actually, I think this is what us English complain about as well, as we are taught that we're British, with no mention of English.
:D :D :D

It is more like that we are taught that to be British is the same as being English. This happens all the time. If we are taught about the achievements of the 'British' it is to promote the 'one nation' approach of the EIS.
When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.

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Kitto
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Re: UKIP No1

Post by Kitto » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:28 am

Stephen Richardson wrote:
Kitto wrote: Actually, I think this is what us English complain about as well, as we are taught that we're British, with no mention of English.
:D :D :D

It is more like that we are taught that to be British is the same as being English. This happens all the time. If we are taught about the achievements of the 'British' it is to promote the 'one nation' approach of the EIS.
EIS? That's another one of those silly conspiracies. It is the English that suffer a disproportionate amount of cuts, it is the English who suffer under the Barnett Formula, it is the English who are denied their own Parliament (as well as yourselves), so enough nonsense about English Imperialism. Act like its the 21st Century and people will take you seriously (trust me, as a UKIP member I know this all too well).

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Stephen Richardson
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Re: UKIP No1

Post by Stephen Richardson » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:34 am

Kitto wrote:It is the English that suffer a disproportionate amount of cuts, it is the English who suffer under the Barnett Formula, it is the English who are denied their own Parliament (as well as yourselves), so enough nonsense about English Imperialism. Act like its the 21st Century and people will take you seriously (trust me, as a UKIP member I know this all too well).
Why is there a London weighting?

Why do City of London school children receive twice the level of funding that Cornish kids do?

Why should people living in Cornwall pay for English tourists to use safe clean beaches?

Why does cornwall have to subsidise England's monarchy at a greater level per head of poulation and why is it not allowed to ask questions about it in the Westminster parliament?
When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.

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Kitto
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Re: UKIP No1

Post by Kitto » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:42 am

Stephen Richardson wrote:
Kitto wrote:It is the English that suffer a disproportionate amount of cuts, it is the English who suffer under the Barnett Formula, it is the English who are denied their own Parliament (as well as yourselves), so enough nonsense about English Imperialism. Act like its the 21st Century and people will take you seriously (trust me, as a UKIP member I know this all too well).
Why is there a London weighting?

Why do City of London school children receive twice the level of funding that Cornish kids do?

Why should people living in Cornwall pay for English tourists to use safe clean beaches?

Why does cornwall have to subsidise England's monarchy at a greater level per head of poulation and why is it not allowed to ask questions about it in the Westminster parliament?
This doesn't just apply to Cornwall, this could apply to the Westcountry, the Welsh valleys, etc.

Besides, its the Monarchy of the whole Commonwealth, not just England and Scotland.

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Stephen Richardson
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Re: UKIP No1

Post by Stephen Richardson » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:47 am

Kitto wrote:
Stephen Richardson wrote:
Kitto wrote:It is the English that suffer a disproportionate amount of cuts, it is the English who suffer under the Barnett Formula, it is the English who are denied their own Parliament (as well as yourselves), so enough nonsense about English Imperialism. Act like its the 21st Century and people will take you seriously (trust me, as a UKIP member I know this all too well).
Why is there a London weighting?

Why do City of London school children receive twice the level of funding that Cornish kids do?

Why should people living in Cornwall pay for English tourists to use safe clean beaches?

Why does cornwall have to subsidise England's monarchy at a greater level per head of poulation and why is it not allowed to ask questions about it in the Westminster parliament?
This doesn't just apply to Cornwall, this could apply to the Westcountry, the Welsh valleys, etc.

Besides, its the Monarchy of the whole Commonwealth, not just England and Scotland.
... but these are clear examples where England benefits at the expense of other areas - whereas you make out that England is hard done by!

Besides - your dismissive statement doesn't actually answer the questions.

(.... and that's leaving aside the issue that the English monarchy is not that of Cornwall.)
When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.

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Kitto
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Re: UKIP No1

Post by Kitto » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:49 am

What? You are actually deluded. You are talking about London, the capital of the UK - it is not representative of England as a whole. I come from the Westcountry, which is MUCH poorer than London.

dolly pentreath
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Re: UKIP No1

Post by dolly pentreath » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:13 am

Kitto wrote: it is the English who suffer under the Barnett Formula, it is the English who are denied their own Parliament (as well as yourselves), so enough nonsense about English Imperialism.
The hidden agenda of the Barnett Formula was to try to fool the electorate of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland that they are better off being part of the United Kingdom and to stave off calls for independence. It is no coincidence that the above countries benefit in direct proportion to the perceived risk they pose to the Union i.e Northern Ireland gets more than Scotland which gets more than Wales.

It hasn't worked because anyone who can do simple arithmetic can figure that while the population of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are taxed a little less per capita, they are still subsidising the English dominated state. Naturally Sinn Fein, The Scottish National Party and Plaid Cymru have done their best - in the teeth of Westminster propaganda - to get this message across.

The lesson for Cornwall is clear: the more who vote for MK the more Westminster will increase fiscal transfer to Cornwall. The more this is seen to work, the more MK's vote would increase. Eventually MK would be in a position to get the message across that we would be better off economically with independence.

The only problem is having to compete with the financial resources of the Westminster propaganda machine, ably assisted by the private sector Unionist media.

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Marhak
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Re: UKIP No1

Post by Marhak » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:40 am

In government, it is the English who were the architects of their own problem. They've denied themselves. If they hadn't insisted on Union with Scotland, interfered in Ireland, assimilated Wales (as they did for 300 years) and trampled all over Cornwall's (still existing) rights to its own parliament (helped by a Duke or two), they wouldn't have to moan about too many non-English in their parliament. That's only the elected part of it, though. The centre of the real power - the Civil Service in Whitehall - is overwhelmingly English.

dolly pentreath
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Re: UKIP No1

Post by dolly pentreath » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:02 am

Marhak wrote:In government, it is the English who were the architects of their own problem. They've denied themselves. If they hadn't insisted on Union with Scotland, interfered in Ireland, assimilated Wales (as they did for 300 years) and trampled all over Cornwall's (still existing) rights to its own parliament (helped by a Duke or two), they wouldn't have to moan about too many non-English in their parliament. That's only the elected part of it, though. The centre of the real power - the Civil Service in Whitehall - is overwhelmingly English.
Absolutely.

The only comment I would add is that the Civil Service, in Whitehall and elsewhere in the so-called UK, as well as local government, does contain non-English personnel - although, as you say, it is overwhelmingly English, at least in its corporate ethos. The same goes for the Westminster Parliament.

Civil servants from the Celtic countries (and officers and elected members of government at all levels) may embrace the English/Unionist ethos or they may resist it. Resistance may be passive - not adopting the English/Unionist mindset - or it may be active. Resisting the English/Unionist ethos may include promoting political, social or fiscal accommodation for their homeland when the opportunity arises and in the guise of 'in the best interests of the UK' or it may include a variety of activities such as intelligence gathering and the passing on of information and subversion in various forms.

As the Republic of Ireland is safely out of the clutches of the Union much published material is available on how the Irish infiltrated the civil service and government. It was an absolutely essential part of the struggle for independence. It is essential reading to all Celtic nationalists.

Less published material is available on the same phenomenon in Norther Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Cornwall for obvious reasons. We don't want the buggers to know what we are up to!

CJenkin
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Re: UKIP No1

Post by CJenkin » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:29 am

Kitto wrote:
Marhak wrote:Who are told at school that they're English under the National Curriculum brainwash-and-assimilate system.
Actually, I think this is what us English complain about as well, as we are taught that we're British, with no mention of English.
My heart bleeds England is the majority nation within the UK, its problems are nothing in comparison to those of the scots, welsh, and cornish.

PS well done the SNP with its plans to introduce Scottish studies. Funnily enough we were taught ENGLISH at school but not Cornish or Cornish studies

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Kitto
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Re: UKIP No1

Post by Kitto » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:24 pm

Well its a good job you've learnt English, you should be thankful they do teach it in school!

None of you have any evidence that the Celtic nations subsidise England, simply because there is none! England subsidises the rest!

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