Maga under threat

Topical debate
Post Reply
carrek
Posts: 735
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:48 pm

Maga under threat

Post by carrek » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:58 pm

Fears for Cornish Language Partnership

13 April 2011

The Cornish Language Partnership says it is facing an uncertain future unless the government approves its bid for funding.

The partnership was set up in 2005 to co-ordinate efforts to promote the Cornish language.

It runs on an annual budget of more than £200,000.

Nearly three quarters of the money comes from central government. The current funding ran out at the end of March.

The Department for Communities and Local Government said no decision has yet been made on the latest funding bid.

Project manager Jenefer Lowe said without more government support the partnership will not be able to build on its past success.

She said: "There's no legal responsibility to fund the language but there is a responsibility to assist in the promotion and safe-guarding of it."

Since it was formed the partnership said it has brought about a consensus on the standard written form of the Cornish language and helped to challenge the idea that it is a dead language.

In February 2009 the United Nations said Cornish was extinct. By December 2010 the UN accepted that it should re-classify Cornish as merely critically endangered.

Cornwall councillor Bert Biscoe, a member of the Partnership, said: "If you're looking at Cornwall's distinctiveness, its brand in the future world of trade and so forth, having something that distinguishes and defines our brand like a living language is very important."

If the government does not renew its funding, the Partnership said it will try to secure money from other areas.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-13059389

User avatar
kbcl1
Posts: 873
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:27 pm

Re: Maga under threat

Post by kbcl1 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:12 am

We had heard that MAGA was to register as a Community Interest Company so freeing it from the need to secure English Government funding and opening up other funding channels which serve many other CICs in the Duchy well, film companies, theatre companies and so on.

User avatar
Anselm
Posts: 1566
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:04 pm

Re: Maga under threat

Post by Anselm » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:07 am

Y fydh dagrow kyns es prys gweli. Ott an pyth a leveris vy a'n dalleth. Pandra hwervydh lemmyn? Ny woer nagonan.
Anselm

'Against a promontory my ship' Rump L. Stiltz-Kinn

'With regret I feel that unless you have a serious change of heart your presence at the Mennaye on Cornish Pirates match days is no longer desired.'
Rod Coward
CEO
Cornish Pirates

User avatar
factotum
Posts: 1320
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:15 pm

Re: Maga under threat

Post by factotum » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:15 pm

Take control of the language movement, do as little as possible, then quietly close it down. I'm sorry to say it, but "I told you so". No blame should attach to the Maga staff, btw, who no doubt have made the best of an impossible situation, it's the politicians who pull their stings who have always been behind all of this.

carrek
Posts: 735
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:48 pm

Re: Maga under threat

Post by carrek » Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:38 pm

factotum wrote:Take control of the language movement, do as little as possible, then quietly close it down. I'm sorry to say it, but "I told you so". No blame should attach to the Maga staff, btw, who no doubt have made the best of an impossible situation, it's the politicians who pull their stings who have always been behind all of this.
Let's wait until a decision has actually been made before we go blundering ahead with your conspiracy theories.

User avatar
Marhak
Posts: 11075
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:46 am

Re: Maga under threat

Post by Marhak » Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:04 pm

Good point - it hasn't been decided. If, however, the Government does cut or pull funding, then it must be seriously challenged as it gives a hell of a lot more money to Ulster-Scots.

User avatar
Ellery
Posts: 580
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:42 pm

Re: Maga under threat

Post by Ellery » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:10 am

we've yet to see how many put down Cornish as their main language on the census.

User avatar
factotum
Posts: 1320
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:15 pm

Re: Maga under threat

Post by factotum » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:09 am

It's impossible for anyone to have Cornish as their main language, since at present there is afaik no community that speaks Cornish, at best a handful of isolated families. The number of people raised as Cornish speakers can't be much above a dozen either, so if any large numbers turn up it's just more wishful thinking. In any case such a question is rather meaningless without a clear definition of what it's supposed to mean. This may be obvious for a 'normal' language like French or even Welsh, but I wouldn't know how to interpret it for Cornish. In any case I don't really see how this relates to MAGA, since no-one was ever under the illusion that Cornish was widely used as an everyday language --- were they?

I am of course in favour of Cornish coming back as a 'normal' language, it's just that no-one seems to really know how to achieve that end.

carrek
Posts: 735
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:48 pm

Re: Maga under threat

Post by carrek » Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:02 pm

factotum wrote:It's impossible for anyone to have Cornish as their main language, since at present there is afaik no community that speaks Cornish, at best a handful of isolated families. The number of people raised as Cornish speakers can't be much above a dozen either
Then it's not "impossible" then, is it!
factotum wrote:so if any large numbers turn up it's just more wishful thinking. In any case such a question is rather meaningless without a clear definition of what it's supposed to mean. This may be obvious for a 'normal' language like French or even Welsh, but I wouldn't know how to interpret it for Cornish. In any case I don't really see how this relates to MAGA, since no-one was ever under the illusion that Cornish was widely used as an everyday language --- were they?
Blah blah blah blah blah blah, if people put Cornish as their main language then that's what they did, the census people aren't going to go around testing people's Cornish skills are they? Why do you have to analyse everything from such a position of pessimism all the effing time?
factotum wrote:I am of course in favour of Cornish coming back as a 'normal' language, it's just that no-one seems to really know how to achieve that end.
Well you certainly don't, you're all questions and no answers. The glass is always half empty. You're getting extremely boring.

Image

User avatar
factotum
Posts: 1320
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:15 pm

Re: Maga under threat

Post by factotum » Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:58 pm

No, it's not about ability to speak Cornish, it's about opportunity. "Main Language" surely means either "the language you were brought up speaking" or "the language you use most in your everyday interactions". Do you have some other definition that relates to something more than someone's aspirations? My first definition applies to only a handful of people, not all of whom use Cornish as adults. The second can only apply to someone who has a Cornish speaking spouse/friend/workmate and hardly ever speaks to anyone else. Even with the best will in the world this would only be possible for small fraction of present fluent Kernewegoryon who by chance have a cornish-speaking partner or neighbour etc. Given the small number of such people and the fact that they are scattered all over the Duchy and beyond, again I can't see how these conditions could apply to more than a handful (and that would be stretching matters).

User avatar
Ellery
Posts: 580
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:42 pm

Re: Maga under threat

Post by Ellery » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:24 am

There are plenty of people to converse with on the internet on a daily basis. People use Cornish regularly on facebook and on twitter:

http://indigenoustweets.com/kw/

User avatar
Marhak
Posts: 11075
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:46 am

Re: Maga under threat

Post by Marhak » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:36 am

Keith - if everyone was as negative as you're being, Cornish would be dead and buried. Luckily - and although disagreements still exist - the language is not only thriving, but poised for a big leap forward. Are you even aware of the work the Education Development guys (Pol and Mike) are doing? You could have helped the cause but, for whatever reason, you've chosen not to.

Karesk
Posts: 590
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:46 pm

Re: Maga under threat

Post by Karesk » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:31 am

Yma lev arvreusel pupprys a vri, mes yn eur a beryll y tal dhyn diskwedhes krevder ha galladewder an taves, a-dar y woliadewder.

User avatar
factotum
Posts: 1320
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:15 pm

Re: Maga under threat

Post by factotum » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:54 pm

I'm sorry but the world of Cornish nationalism and the Cornish language is full of wishful thinking which IMO gets in the way of meaningful progress. Cornish is stuck in a sort of dead and alive limbo and has been for decades. People learn it in classes, by and large in middle-age or retirement. They may even become fluent but they're too old to pass it on to their kids so to be brutally honest (and without intending any disrespect) they can't really contribute to making Cornish a living language again. Even couples where both speak Cornish do not always use it with their kids, and even when they have, their kids do not seem to have been recruited to the Cornish speaking community, mainly because there is no such community in any real sense.

The thing to do, IMO would be first to locate existing fluent speakers and look for any incipient clusters, and then throw whatever resources are available at them and their areas to provide nuclei to build out from, and to which other speakers and would-be speakers could gravitate. The present policy, of teaching lots of people to say "fatla genes" or whatever is purely cosmetic and will never bring the language back. Teaching Cornish as a subject in schools will *not* bring the language back (this has been shown elsewhere over and over) and rarely achieves fluency. Partial or total immersion (teaching through the endangered language) does achieve fluency, but the kids still rarely use it between themselves or outside of school, unless their parents/community are already using it regularly.

In what language does Pol speak to his kids?

How might I have "helped the cause"? No one seems to be asking for my help. I don't meet people who seriously wish to learn Cornish. Those I know through language connections already speak it at least as well as I do; those I meet in the course of 'normal life' have never shown any interest.

carrek
Posts: 735
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:48 pm

Re: Maga under threat

Post by carrek » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:17 pm

factotum wrote:Cornish is stuck in a sort of dead and alive limbo and has been for decades.
Rubbish. The language has grown far more in the past 10 years than it did in the previous 100. Of course it's going to take a long time, we're starting from nothing. Show me another minority language that is actually growing in numbers.
factotum wrote:The thing to do, IMO would be first to locate existing fluent speakers and look for any incipient clusters, and then throw whatever resources are available at them and their areas to provide nuclei to build out from, and to which other speakers and would-be speakers could gravitate. The present policy, of teaching lots of people to say "fatla genes" or whatever is purely cosmetic and will never bring the language back. Teaching Cornish as a subject in schools will *not* bring the language back (this has been shown elsewhere over and over) and rarely achieves fluency.
Are you an expert in language revival? Have you studied the various methods over generations used among different endangered languages? Have you extensively researched attitudes to endangered languages and motivations for learning them?

Or did you think about it for 30 seconds and come to some interesting conclusions?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests