Facebook Supports Anti-Cornish Remarks!

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kbcl1
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Re: Facebook Supports Anti-Cornish Remarks!

Post by kbcl1 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:39 pm

We have also just received a message that one of our MWPs is drawing this whole issue to the attention of the appropriate Minister.

carrek
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Re: Facebook Supports Anti-Cornish Remarks!

Post by carrek » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:53 pm

kbcl1 wrote:Received from the Cornwall Labour Party:

"Thanks for contacting me. I agree the group may cause offence, and have used the facebook link to report it; that's my individual response.

You have contacted many politicians and the facebook group is to be brought to the attention of the Labour Party.


Charlotte

Charlotte MacKenzie
07932 501293"
I thought she was suspended?

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kbcl1
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Re: Facebook Supports Anti-Cornish Remarks!

Post by kbcl1 » Sun May 01, 2011 11:56 am

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6765522407&v=wall

A check of the FB site in question has revealed a further large number of comments removed by one means or another.

This has shown that such things must be firmly challenged without fear.

Has it made the front of the 'Sun' 'news'paper yet as forecast by one poster here ? We should not be worried if it had, by the way as we are always sure of our stand as all Cornish people must be. One does not see Alex Salmond and the Scottish Nationalists fearfully fumbling on the sidelines !

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Marhak
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Re: Facebook Supports Anti-Cornish Remarks!

Post by Marhak » Sun May 01, 2011 12:27 pm

If Baillie is to be arrested, then the wording of the charge may be of great importance to our call for inclusion in the Framework Convention. Is there any way we could have sight of that wording?

Cormorant
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Re: Facebook Supports Anti-Cornish Remarks!

Post by Cormorant » Sun May 01, 2011 2:12 pm

Comments from the Cornish Labour Party?

Who have no M.P.'s in Cornwall and 1 Councillor?

"Any port in a storm", as they say. :lol:

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factotum
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Re: Facebook Supports Anti-Cornish Remarks!

Post by factotum » Sun May 01, 2011 2:26 pm

Following the Scottish election, I was brought down to earth to hear Salmond and other SNP speakers state that the UK was a state which contained FOUR nations. I.e. Ireland (part), Scotland, England and Wales. They therefore consider Cornwall to be part of England, just like everyone else. So decades of MK and Celtic League propaganda seem to have had little effect, even on are supposed allies.

This is my nightmare scenario. Scotland goes independent, no help then as it will be a foreign country outside the UK, like Eire is now. UK internal affairs will then be none of their business and they'll be too busy making their own links with Europe. Wales might get independence too eventually, or it might somehow be contained as an autonomous 'region' within a regionalised federal "England-and-Wales". But whatever happens Cornwall will be trapped inside "England" or a "SW Region", with our Celtic friends all having said, "I'm alright (Cousin) Jack" and pulled the ladder up after them.

I know you all think it's daft, but the only escape route I can see, is to start lobbying really hard to be seen as part of Wales. Since it's either than or get stuck inside an England governed entirely by English politicians, without the present moderating influence of Scots and Welsh at Westminster.

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kbcl1
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Re: Facebook Supports Anti-Cornish Remarks!

Post by kbcl1 » Sun May 01, 2011 2:50 pm

Cormorant wrote:Comments from the Cornish Labour Party?

Who have no M.P.'s in Cornwall and 1 Councillor?

"Any port in a storm", as they say. :lol:
response by Coun Graeme Hicks:


I indeed find such comments against the Cornish deeply offensive and completely unacceptable in a so called tolerant society. If these types of comments had been directed towards people of Asian or African origin then immediate action would be taken.

I complained bitterly sometime ago about Cornish people being referred to as inbreds on many internet sites only to be mocked by the national press. Absolutely disgraceful.

I will take it up with Kevin Lavery when I return to County Hall next week with a view to see what the council may be able to do. Hopefully George may be able to raise this act of racism against Cornish people with the relevant Minister.

Regards

Graeme

and Coun Bert Biscoe:

Thank you for your note. I take your complaint very seriously. I have contacted the head of Equality at Cornwall Council for advice. I will contact you as soon as I have received his wisdom!
Best wishes
Bert Biscoe

meanwhile George Eustace has informed us that he is flagging this matter with the relevant Secretary of State.

Only you would find this subject amusing Cormorant but nevertheless, the English Nationalists/Cornish Haters appear to be the ones the with smiles on the other sides of their faces now as the comments disappear and the police start knocking on their doors, wouldn't you agree.......tuss ! By the way, how are things in England ? I avoid the place like the plague myself. Any advice regarding English websites where we could post comments on your Country would be more than welcome though.

Chris/dep Sec
Last edited by kbcl1 on Sun May 01, 2011 2:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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kbcl1
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Re: Facebook Supports Anti-Cornish Remarks!

Post by kbcl1 » Sun May 01, 2011 2:51 pm

factotum wrote:Following the Scottish election, I was brought down to earth to hear Salmond and other SNP speakers state that the UK was a state which contained FOUR nations. I.e. Ireland (part), Scotland, England and Wales. They therefore consider Cornwall to be part of England, just like everyone else. So decades of MK and Celtic League propaganda seem to have had little effect, even on are supposed allies.

This is my nightmare scenario. Scotland goes independent, no help then as it will be a foreign country outside the UK, like Eire is now. UK internal affairs will then be none of their business and they'll be too busy making their own links with Europe. Wales might get independence too eventually, or it might somehow be contained as an autonomous 'region' within a regionalised federal "England-and-Wales". But whatever happens Cornwall will be trapped inside "England" or a "SW Region", with our Celtic friends all having said, "I'm alright (Cousin) Jack" and pulled the ladder up after them.

I know you all think it's daft, but the only escape route I can see, is to start lobbying really hard to be seen as part of Wales. Since it's either than or get stuck inside an England governed entirely by English politicians, without the present moderating influence of Scots and Welsh at Westminster.
Posting strictly as an individual I am able to say that I agree with your comments and so do several CL members. We do have SNP MSPs as members in Alba and I have just flagged this issue to the GS for discussions with the SNP. Thanks for drawing this matter to attention.

Chris

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Kitto
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Re: Facebook Supports Anti-Cornish Remarks!

Post by Kitto » Sun May 01, 2011 3:05 pm

You'd never get accepted as part of Wales or Scotland because there are so many people who consider themselves English in Cornwall. Your best option, and only option, is to build up the Cornish national identity as a British identity that is separate to English/Welsh/etc.

carrek
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Re: Facebook Supports Anti-Cornish Remarks!

Post by carrek » Sun May 01, 2011 5:43 pm

factotum wrote:Following the Scottish election, I was brought down to earth to hear Salmond and other SNP speakers state that the UK was a state which contained FOUR nations. I.e. Ireland (part), Scotland, England and Wales. They therefore consider Cornwall to be part of England, just like everyone else. So decades of MK and Celtic League propaganda seem to have had little effect, even on are supposed allies.

This is my nightmare scenario. Scotland goes independent, no help then as it will be a foreign country outside the UK, like Eire is now. UK internal affairs will then be none of their business and they'll be too busy making their own links with Europe. Wales might get independence too eventually, or it might somehow be contained as an autonomous 'region' within a regionalised federal "England-and-Wales". But whatever happens Cornwall will be trapped inside "England" or a "SW Region", with our Celtic friends all having said, "I'm alright (Cousin) Jack" and pulled the ladder up after them.

I know you all think it's daft, but the only escape route I can see, is to start lobbying really hard to be seen as part of Wales. Since it's either than or get stuck inside an England governed entirely by English politicians, without the present moderating influence of Scots and Welsh at Westminster.
They say it because it's what they have to say to be taken seriously. And because Cornwall has got nothing to so with the SNP's raison d'etre. I think they are fully aware of Cornwall but they are rightly concerning themselves with their own issues and priorities and that's appealing to 5 million Scottish people. The SNP have had a few joint events with Plaid Cymru but they each keep to their own turf, and MK could join them if they had more support. It's a marathon not a sprint.

I think that by the time Scotland leaves the UK, English nationalism will rise and the English will start to think 'maybe it's time to just break up the union and be England again'. So Wales and Northern Ireland will go their separate ways. This would not happen for a few decades yet by which time awareness of Cornish nationalism will have grown and grown in both Cornwall and England and the majority of those that matter in England will be aware that the breaking up isn't finished. The English may just be glad to get rid of us and finally be 'England proper'. We would need to keep driving home the point that England isn't a united whole again, that the break up isn't finished. Which would be a lot easier if we had devolution and FCPNM recognition in the meantime.

The idea that Cornwall could get transferred to Wales is ridiculous. After bleating on for 100 years about how we're a Celtic nation, we then change course and say we're part of Wales? What message would that send out? It would completely undermine our cause, not to mention our separate identity, history, culture, heritage, language etc. The English will say that if we wouldn't mind being part of Wales then we shouldn't mind being part of England. I don't want to be part of Wales any more than I want to be part of England, and I'd imagine neither do many other Cornish people.

Cormorant
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Re: Facebook Supports Anti-Cornish Remarks!

Post by Cormorant » Sun May 01, 2011 6:08 pm

kbcl1 wrote:
Cormorant wrote:Comments from the Cornish Labour Party?

Who have no M.P.'s in Cornwall and 1 Councillor?

"Any port in a storm", as they say. :lol:
response by Coun Graeme Hicks:


I indeed find such comments against the Cornish deeply offensive and completely unacceptable in a so called tolerant society. If these types of comments had been directed towards people of Asian or African origin then immediate action would be taken.

I complained bitterly sometime ago about Cornish people being referred to as inbreds on many internet sites only to be mocked by the national press. Absolutely disgraceful.

I will take it up with Kevin Lavery when I return to County Hall next week with a view to see what the council may be able to do. Hopefully George may be able to raise this act of racism against Cornish people with the relevant Minister.

Regards

Graeme

and Coun Bert Biscoe:

Thank you for your note. I take your complaint very seriously. I have contacted the head of Equality at Cornwall Council for advice. I will contact you as soon as I have received his wisdom!
Best wishes
Bert Biscoe

meanwhile George Eustace has informed us that he is flagging this matter with the relevant Secretary of State.

Only you would find this subject amusing Cormorant but nevertheless, the English Nationalists/Cornish Haters appear to be the ones the with smiles on the other sides of their faces now as the comments disappear and the police start knocking on their doors, wouldn't you agree.......tuss ! By the way, how are things in England ? I avoid the place like the plague myself. Any advice regarding English websites where we could post comments on your Country would be more than welcome though.

Chris/dep Sec
I made no such comments against the Cornish, Councillor Hicks.

Get a grip!

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factotum
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Re: Facebook Supports Anti-Cornish Remarks!

Post by factotum » Sun May 01, 2011 6:56 pm

Cornwall's case for nationhood, when seen from outside the cocoon of Cornish Nat. idealism, is unfortunately very weak indeed.

Ireland is mostly a separate nation now, and NI can become independent whenever the population vote for it, so even though that may never happen, nevertheless Westminster has acknowledged the principle.

Scotland was never fully merged with England, and is on a slow but steady roll to independence. Having given NI the right to leave the union if a majority vote for it, the same right can hardly be denied to the Scots. The main problem will be stopping the process from running away with itself. I.e. holding back the vote until enough of the population feel confident about independence.

Wales was originally fully merged into England, but has been gradually becoming more distinct legally and politically, following very much in Scotland's slipstream. It is certainly no longer viewed as part of England.

The IoM has it's own special constitutional position and while more independence might be sought, there has never been any question of it being considered a part of England. It has always had its own legal system etc.

Brittany of course has its own problems with France, but there has never been any doubt over the fact that it is culturally and linguistically Celtic.

Cornwall however has no de facto separate legal identity, and most of the population are at best confused over their identity. Most of the rest of the UK, English and others, believe Cornwall is part of England. Once the other Celtic nations escape the UK, Cornwall will be left stranded alone in 'England'. The loss of Scotland (and Wales?) will bring about a major identity crisis for people in England. This is because there are large immigrant communities who have resisted integration and who see themselves, and are seen from outside, as 'British' but not 'English'. E.g. you hear of 'Black British' but never 'Black English', of 'British Muslims' or 'British Sikhs' but never 'English Ms' or 'E. Sikhs', and so on for almost any ethnicity/nationality/religion you care to name. This could lead to 'English' identity taking on strong racist overtones. This is not a country I want to find myself part of by default.

'Welsh' simply meant the native Britons who remained culturally distinct from the English invaders. There were Strathclyde and Cumbrian Welsh in the Hen Ogledd, and Welshmen in Wessex (they had less legal rights than Englishmen), and the free 'West Welsh' in Cornwall (and Devon before they were evicted). The places where these 'Welsh' lived were all 'Wales' from an English point of view. Cornwall was 'West Wales'. There was frequent travel between the two areas, (and Brittany and Ireland). Every other Cornish village is named after a Welsh saint. Why do people have a problem with Cornwall as a detached part of Wales? Especially if the alternative is being lumped in with an increasingly racist England (as the FB incident demonstrates).

But the main problem, I think, is that Cornwall has simply missed the Devolution Bus. By getting their own devolved governments, Scotland and Wales have platforms where their Nats are much better represented than they ever were at Westminster, and where they have sufficient powers to establish a track record. On that basis they are moving forward to independence. But Cornwall is just nowhere. MK have no leverage. Calls for an assembly, even when backed by a large petition were simply ignored, by a labour government that claimed to be in favour of assemblies.

Cornwall should be viewed as a nation, either by itself or as a special part of Wales. Definitely NOT part of England. My problem is that I just can't see a route to get from here to there. If MK have a strategy perhaps they could explain it.

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Marhak
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Re: Facebook Supports Anti-Cornish Remarks!

Post by Marhak » Sun May 01, 2011 7:16 pm

Cornwall has been left behind, and a major reason is our exclusion from the Framework Convention. We must find a way to force the issue, and secure that first. The Constitutional Convention came closest to forcing a Assembly. Many organisations, groups and individuals were involved, and it needs to reform in strength once again. The Convention had a plan, a strategy and strength of support, which was only scuppered by the betrayal of the Lib-Dems under Whalley, who forced through a unitary authority against both their own pledges and the will of the Cornish people. It was a trick they can't do twice. A Cornish inclusion in a Federation of Celtic States is what I've always wanted to see, but we need more support from the other 5. Alex Salmond hasn't exactly helped us there.

carrek
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Re: Facebook Supports Anti-Cornish Remarks!

Post by carrek » Sun May 01, 2011 7:21 pm

It's a marathon not a sprint. We're trying to change how 60 million people view their country. That's not going to happen overnight. We've made great progress over the past 50 years, even the amount of change in people's perceptions over the past 10 years is noticeable. The free access to information via the Internet outside the traditional confines of the media and governments is the best thing to happen to the Cornish cause and now social media will only accelerate the process. MK have made great progress too, since deciding to become a political party in the 70s, it's now Cornwall's third largest party with 15% of the vote in the 33 seats it stood in at the local elections.

Time is on our side. You seem to want everything to happen yesterday.

We need to be confident in our cause and keep up the pressure, not get bogged down with pessimism and navel-gazing.

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factotum
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Re: Facebook Supports Anti-Cornish Remarks!

Post by factotum » Sun May 01, 2011 7:32 pm

I was simply pointing out how urgent the situation appears. The British constitution will be thrown into a state of flux when Scotland leaves the UK and Cornwall needs to be in position to take advantage. The free Celtic nations of the future may well form some kind of political league (like say, the Nordic nations), but we won't be in the club, because on present showing we'll be left trapped inside England, like a kid in detention after school, who can hear all his mates playing outside.

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