Republic threat to Cornwall

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Kevrenor
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Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by Kevrenor » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:26 am

The UK unionist group Republic has issued a threat to the people of the Duchy of Cornwall and their democratic right to decide their own future, be it with a Duke or as a republic.

http://www.republic.org.uk/updates/?p=553

This dangerous campaign which is designed to strip 'an Duk' of his estate revenue, would also collaterally strip the rights and revenues of Cornwall from its people for the enrichment of the wider UK.

It should be opposed until they recognise Cornwall, and provide for a Cornish republic in their manifesto.

Queue the usually trolls here: http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Anti-mo ... story.html

cornishsurfgirl
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by cornishsurfgirl » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:13 am

Republic - another Unionist group - as loyal to the UK as the Tories and UKIP.

The UK is on its way out, and the nearer we get to an Independent Scotland the more these shoddy little groups like Republic come out with colonialist drivel like this. We don't need ANY head of state for a soon to be defunct union.

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Marhak
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by Marhak » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:40 am

Like UKIP, another bunch of "Little Englanders".

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capten
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by capten » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:13 pm

I'm no fan of the monarchy but this group only seems to care about replacing the monarchy in a broad sweep without any consideration for how important the Duchy's constitutional powers are to modern Cornish politics and identity.

They seem to want a repeat of the French Revolution, and we all know what that did to Brittany's autonomy and identity. Completely wiped out in the name of French Republicanism. Our Cornish autonomy based on Duchy laws may not be recognised by the government but so long as there is a monarchy it exists nonetheless. If this group has its way it'll all be gone, by their decree rather than that of the Cornish.

Notice how they didn't bother to ask anyone in Cornwall about their opinions regarding the Duchy, before proclaiming on our behalf.

Send them an email and tell them why the Duchy is important. It's likely they're just your typical metropolitan yuppies who haven't got a clue that the Duchy charters even exist. Suggest to them that the powers of the Duchy should be transferred to Cornwall Council via referendum. If they really care about democracy and citizen empowerment then they should at least be open to the idea.

Ludgvan
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by Ludgvan » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:33 pm

These thugs don't have a clue about Cornwall's specific land ownership situation.

Any communication with them, or indeed with anyone on the subject of the Duchy should draw on the information in John Angarrack's Duchy of Cornwall website which clearly explains land ownership of Cornwall.

Absolute owner of land
http://www.duchyofcornwall.eu/latest/?page_id=130

The unabridged version of an article that appeared in the Western Morning News over two days (19th and 21st November 2011):
http://www.duchyofcornwall.eu/latest/?p=295


By the way, the duchyofcornwall.eu website used to be on 'sticky' here on C24. With threats coming from Republic and others, it's high time this core information source was re-instated.

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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:59 pm

Republic is no more a unionist organisation than it is a Celtic nationalist, conservative, green or socialist one. The same can be said for any other organisation that has a remit to operate across the UK. The majority of its members come from England and this is reflected in its activities but if it was a purely unionist group then it wouldn't have autonomous Republic Wales and Republic Scotland branches (which contain members from the SNP and Plaid BTW).

The Duchy of Cornwall not only has private properties outside Cornwall but equally its undemocratic powers influence the decision making process in England and the rest of the UK not just in Kernow. Just because Cornwall and the Cornish movement are incapable of doing away with this feudal nonsense of an organisation, or even deciding one way or the other what to do, doesn't mean that others who are affected by it shouldn't try.

Now we can either shun Republic (and all other UK wide groups) in a form of self-righteous isolation that will simply get us ignored or we can try to open a dialogue with them and influence the decisions that are taken.

Carvath
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by Carvath » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:56 pm

I don't think this is a good year for anti-monarchy republicanism and those ideas seem to be slipping backwards. It's not a good horse to back and any changes to the constitution of Cornwall should primarily be at the wishes of the people of Cornwall.

Looking around the world at this time does not throw up any republic that is wildly more successful, democratic or just than GB/UK and any that get close are not due to lack of monarchy. I read somewhere that the whole royal family cost each taxpayer 52p per annum (double it to take in uncosted protection): so the cost is trivial.

I think Cornwall is better placed as a Duchy of the UK than to be relegated to a County of England.

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Marhak
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by Marhak » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:09 pm

The Duchy's external properties are nothing to do with the territorial and constitutional Duchy (Cornwall) and should be dismissed as irrelevant. They are simply extra assets gathered by the Duke and his predecessors and are external to the terms of the Duchy Charters as laid out by Thomas Pemberton Leigh in 1858.

The constitutional Duchy is Cornwall's affair, and no business of external groups. It affects only us, not them. If it's to be abolished, remodelled or enhanced, then it's for us to decide, and no one else.

cornishsurfgirl
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by cornishsurfgirl » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:47 pm

Republic are just part of the UK illusion. The illustion created by a clique of molly-cuddled politicians and academics who have been play-acting 'socialism vs conservatism' for the past ten years, when in fact they are concerned with only one thing, an ego-driven power struggle. Without the stress and burden of having to work for food and shelter, they can pre-occupy themselves with the pursuit of 'politics' - except that it is isn't politics at all. It's a pantomime. With a few token working class 'characters' they can happily 'engage' us all in their 'debates' which will never really do the thing that we in Cornwall might want.

The problem is that the illusion is breaking. Scotland is leaving the union. You can see the panic in the BBC, in the Times, the Guardian, it's suppressed, but they're trembling with anger and fear and resentment and bewilderment.

These little think tanks and Quangos are just breeding grounds for these little prats to ensure they'll create just as contemptible and polished offspring to carry on this charade of left and right politics. Whether its the smug political academics at Exeter or the aloof political researchers at Westminster - the whole thing is a scam, and when you start on at least 30K a year, well socialist, capitalist, you choose your colour, you pick the side, you play the game.

But given there is very little difference between the London parties, in what they do - of course they all talk differently - that's the game - then does it really matter? Probably not.

Because none of these groups have the slightest interest in recognising the constitutional position of Cornwall, because that would be the greatest humiliation and strike against the EIS since 1497.

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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:35 pm

Yes yes all very interesting and astute but the fact remains the Cornish movement has managed to do NOTHING concerning the Duchy. Neither do away with it nor use it to get more autonomy. Of course it should be the people of Cornwall who decide what happens to it but this doesn't look to be on the cards any time soon.

If, as is claimed by our constitutionalists, the Duchy is an all powerful legal entity that exists outside the UK's legal framework then I don't think it has anything to worry about from Republic and their shouting.

What Republics shouting will do though is draw attention to the Duchy issue and give greater credence to the fact that it is not just a collection of private estates and that it does have undemocratic powers. This wave of publicity could be used by a wise and well coordinated Cornish movement to forward its arguments in the public domain. Sadly such a wise and well coordinated movement seems to be lacking.

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Marhak
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by Marhak » Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:19 pm

Well, this is the problem. We could, in theory, take Duke Charles to court and force him to reconvene Cornwall's rightful parliament...except that, in the entire UK, only two people are totally exempt from the law - the Queen and Duke Charles, because of the sovereign status held by both of them. Even if we had the money to challenge him, we'd never get to a courtroom - the sod has us by the scrotum. What's the solution?

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capten
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by capten » Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:02 pm

Fulub-le-Breton wrote:The Duchy of Cornwall not only has private properties outside Cornwall but equally its undemocratic powers influence the decision making process in England and the rest of the UK not just in Kernow. Just because Cornwall and the Cornish movement are incapable of doing away with this feudal nonsense of an organisation, or even deciding one way or the other what to do, doesn't mean that others who are affected by it shouldn't try.

Now we can either shun Republic (and all other UK wide groups) in a form of self-righteous isolation that will simply get us ignored or we can try to open a dialogue with them and influence the decisions that are taken.
There are two sides to the coin, as you well know, the "private estate" Duchy that has land outside of Cornwall, and the constitutional Duchy that is coterminous with the territory of Cornwall and provides the Cornish with specific rights and autonomy. Without the Duchy, Cornwall really would be nothing more than an English county.

The debate within the Cornish movement is called politics, Fulub. If you don't agree with the constitutionalists, you should at least be tolerant of their opinions. On this site we are suggesting getting in touch with Republic, and explaining how important the (territorial and constitutional) Duchy is to Cornish identity and history. How is that being isolationist?
Fulub-le-Breton wrote:What Republics shouting will do though is draw attention to the Duchy issue and give greater credence to the fact that it is not just a collection of private estates and that it does have undemocratic powers. This wave of publicity could be used by a wise and well coordinated Cornish movement to forward its arguments in the public domain. Sadly such a wise and well coordinated movement seems to be lacking.
Then come back from Brittany and create it...

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TeamKernow
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by TeamKernow » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:21 pm

To educate :idea: Republic :idea: regarding Kernow matters, Graham Smith, Republic Campaign Manager
( :idea: not the Anti-Cornwall BBClone one! :idea: )
can be written to via:
graham@republic.org.uk

He might find these thorough primary information sources helpfully educational and informative:
http://www.duchyofcornwall.eu
http://www.cornishstannaryparliament.co.uk
http://www.kernowtgg.co.uk
http://www.cornishassembly.org
http://johnangarrack.co.uk

It would be interesting to read some of Mr Smith's considered replies here...

zennorman2
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by zennorman2 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:55 pm

Its madness to suggest that Republic's legitimate concerns should be dismissed. I read some really odd things on this forum sometimes from so called nationalists. I dont like being a feudal peasant and that being used to justify my Cornishness. Republic may need educating but they should also be engaged with. Alas, they will probably meet the Stannary and be desperate to catch the first train from Penzance home!

Carvath
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by Carvath » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:56 pm

I think the consensus is that Republic should be educated in the situations pertaining to Cornwall, not just ignored. However, as I said above it's not a good year for republicanism. I would find it a difficult choice between a head of state like Charles or an "elected" head like Clegg or Cameron. On present performance it would have to be Chas. The concept of the Duchy is a much better starting point for a Cornish Assembly than a mere county; it carries a unique legal status, as pointed out above for instance. Note even Alex Salmond is careful in what he says about the monarch: republicanism is out of fashion in Britain at this time.

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