Republic threat to Cornwall

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Marhak
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by Marhak » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:46 pm

That's our dilemma. The Duchy represents the last outpost of unacceptable feudalism, and the current Duke is a bloody disgrace. On the other hand, it's the Duchy and its legally enshrined, written constitution that sets Cornwall apart. Without it, we'd be totally assimilated into England. What we need is a reconstituted Duchy, run solely from within Cornwall, and fully democratic. Cornish people MUST have a say and a place in it.

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capten
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by capten » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:19 am

Which is why instead of joining Republic's bandwagon, or proclaiming the virtues of feudalism, we should be choosing a middle path, and campaign for the powers of our territorial Duchy to be transferred to Cornwall Council.

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capten
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by capten » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:25 am

Carvath wrote:Looking around the world at this time does not throw up any republic that is wildly more successful, democratic or just than GB/UK and any that get close are not due to lack of monarchy. I read somewhere that the whole royal family cost each taxpayer 52p per annum (double it to take in uncosted protection): so the cost is trivial.
Don't believe everything you read in the paper. The real cost is £202 million a year, 112 times more expensive than the Irish President. The Spanish monarchy costs Spaniards just £7 million a year.
Carvath wrote:I would find it a difficult choice between a head of state like Charles or an "elected" head like Clegg or Cameron.
We'd get whoever we elected. If the UK public elected President Blair then they would deserve President Blair. Although I doubt a switch from a head of state 0% elected by Cornwall, to a head of state 0.5% elected by Cornwall, would make much difference.

Fulub-le-Breton
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:51 am

There are two sides to the coin, as you well know, the "private estate" Duchy that has land outside of Cornwall, and the constitutional Duchy that is coterminous with the territory of Cornwall and provides the Cornish with specific rights and autonomy.


Yes I know but the Duchy also has power over decision making in the rest of the UK as well as having private assets in England. I'm not at all surprised that Republicans from the rest of the UK want it gone, are you?
Without the Duchy, Cornwall really would be nothing more than an English county.
You have a very low opinion of the Cornish nation in that case. For me, Duchy or no, Cornwall will always be a country.
The debate within the Cornish movement is called politics, Fulub. If you don't agree with the constitutionalists, you should at least be tolerant of their opinions.
Oh but I do agree with them. You can read through my blog for confirmation of this if you like. What I disagree with are the childish attacks on Republic which suggested to me that you were ready to do anything but "get in touch with Republic, and explaining how important the (territorial and constitutional) Duchy is to Cornish identity and history".
Then come back from Brittany and create it...
Petty.

zennorman2
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by zennorman2 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:24 pm

Carvath wrote:I think the consensus is that Republic should be educated in the situations pertaining to Cornwall, not just ignored. However, as I said above it's not a good year for republicanism. I would find it a difficult choice between a head of state like Charles or an "elected" head like Clegg or Cameron. On present performance it would have to be Chas. The concept of the Duchy is a much better starting point for a Cornish Assembly than a mere county; it carries a unique legal status, as pointed out above for instance. Note even Alex Salmond is careful in what he says about the monarch: republicanism is out of fashion in Britain at this time.
There was a lot of hype and some enforced celebration of the 'jubilee'. People dont like to think, like a party and dont like to be percieved as 'different'. The queen, also, has a symbolic history and connection for a lot of people whether they yearn for the pride and toegtherness of the immediate post war years or the very different times of the 60s and 70s. She will not be around for ever and Republic is implicitly recognising that fact. People's views on the monarchy will be shaped by who is doing it.

As for a presidency the old chesnut of President Blair is often wheeled out by monarchists. Fact is it is more likely to be a President David Millband, Ashdown etc etc. Politicians who have not achivbed what they thought they could have done. Unpopular ex PMs by definition would not have a chance. There would also likely be a range of people from public life who would be interested in it.

Republic should be engaged with by the Cornish movement.

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capten
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by capten » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:38 pm

Fulub-le-Breton wrote:
There are two sides to the coin, as you well know, the "private estate" Duchy that has land outside of Cornwall, and the constitutional Duchy that is coterminous with the territory of Cornwall and provides the Cornish with specific rights and autonomy.


Yes I know but the Duchy also has power over decision making in the rest of the UK as well as having private assets in England. I'm not at all surprised that Republicans from the rest of the UK want it gone, are you?


No. Why would I be?
Fulub-le-Breton wrote:
Without the Duchy, Cornwall really would be nothing more than an English county.
You have a very low opinion of the Cornish nation in that case. For me, Duchy or no, Cornwall will always be a country.
I was speaking from a constitutional/administrative viewpoint. I'm just as convinced of Cornish nationhood as you are, there's no need to insult me.
Fulub-le-Breton wrote:
The debate within the Cornish movement is called politics, Fulub. If you don't agree with the constitutionalists, you should at least be tolerant of their opinions.
Oh but I do agree with them. You can read through my blog for confirmation of this if you like. What I disagree with are the childish attacks on Republic which suggested to me that you were ready to do anything but "get in touch with Republic, and explaining how important the (territorial and constitutional) Duchy is to Cornish identity and history".
Hardly childish. Kneejerk? Perhaps.
Fulub-le-Breton wrote:
Then come back from Brittany and create it...
Petty.
Not at all. You would be a suitable candidate. It's one thing to debate the actions of politicians and activists but it's another thing to complain from outside about the lack of a "wise and well coordinated" Cornish movement when the people within it are working very hard with very little to make it so.

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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:35 pm

So lets say the shared conclusion then is that the Cornish movement shouldn't simply shun Republic but rather pursue a polite but firm dialogue with them whilst using the heightened level of publicity the Duchy will get to promote our ideas in Cornwall and further abroad. If the Duchy is in the press for any reason lets not miss the chance to promote our POV.

Lets see our constitutionalists - Stannary, DOCHA, Kirkhope, TGG - making the most of the situation to promote their excellent work.

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factotum
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by factotum » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:43 am

Has anyone tried to draft a constitution for a free independent Cornwall? Might be an interesting exercise, no doubt there are many models to draw on, to blend with any good aspects of the present constitutional arrangement.

Btw. if the sovereignty of Cornwall is vested in Charles as head of state, that implies that there exists a sovereign state for him to head up. Changing or removing the head of state does not necessarily eliminate the state. France didn't cease to be after the Revolution, nor England when another Charles was cut down to size ...

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Mark
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by Mark » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:18 pm

They're coming to Cornwall. Chance to let them know exactly what we think of their interfering and to find out if they actually know and understand the Duchy at all.

http://www.republic.org.uk/updates/?eve ... y-campaign
As long as a hundred of us remain alive, we shall never give in to the domination of the English. We fight not for glory, not for wealth nor honours but only and alone for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life...

zennorman2
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by zennorman2 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:13 pm

They are not 'interfering'. Not everyone from the east should be dismissed.

zennorman2
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by zennorman2 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:14 pm

Saturday afternoon eh? Thats really going to grab the masses.

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Marhak
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by Marhak » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:22 am

Sorry, but they ARE interfering. The Duchy is Cornwall's business, not theirs. They don't pay for it, they're not subject to the Duke's political tinkering, or his interference with the course of justice when it pleases him, or to the whims of the unelected Duchy Council which makes all the real decisions for this side of the Tamar. It really has nothing to do with them, and everything to do with us.

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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:29 pm

Supporters will be meeting in Cornwall to kick-start a new local campaign network and to launch a new campaign for the abolition of the Duchy of Cornwall.

Republic’s chief executive Graham Smith will be there to discuss the campaign. The meeting will be asked to make some decisions about the issues involved and what the aims of the Duchy campaign should be (for example, what should happen to the Duchy’s land? What should happen with Cornwall’s constitutional status?)

This is a great opportunity to get involved in the wider republican cause as well as to help steer a crucial part of the developing campaign.

All supporters are welcome, whether you live in Cornwall or not. If you plan to attend please email enquiries@republic.org.uk.

zennorman2
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by zennorman2 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:35 pm

Marhak wrote:Sorry, but they ARE interfering. The Duchy is Cornwall's business, not theirs. They don't pay for it, they're not subject to the Duke's political tinkering, or his interference with the course of justice when it pleases him, or to the whims of the unelected Duchy Council which makes all the real decisions for this side of the Tamar. It really has nothing to do with them, and everything to do with us.
On this occasion, no. The Duchy is part of a bigger problem within the UK and its land and remit does not just sit in Cornwall.

Rosko
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Re: Republic threat to Cornwall

Post by Rosko » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:49 am

Very good debate here.
Well, let's find out where they (Republic) stand re. Kernow's constitutional position, with or without the plundering Duke (or should that be plummeting Duke?).
I'll certainly be there, rugby or no. I suggest members of the Stannary might want to attend too.

PS Capten & Fulup: you're on the same side! I'd be nice to see you both there' too...?

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