Common Law.

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Rosko
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Re: Common Law.

Post by Rosko » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:58 am

I'm not agitating anything, GH.

I read a debate between two people, and I comment with my own thoughts; isn't that what a forum's about? And I observe one person making reasonable & rational comments, and asking logical questions, and the other person pronouncing grand self-righteous knee-jerk statements based on a few weeks' Internet research. I comment accordingly.

Can you not accept any criticism of your (new) party line, GH? No dissent from the new found truth, or it's the gulag for you Mister Rosko... You sound more like Tom Cruise's Scientology body/truth guard, than a campaigner for Cornish rights & recognition.

You also seem to change campaigns, direction, camp, faster than a chameleon changes it's colours...

You may have found something brilliant... or not, GH, but surely Factotum has every right to question you on it, esp once he's read/heard all the references YOU'VE supplied him...

Everything's very black & white to you GH, and that's not necessarily a good thing, and rarely the reality.

I'm not agitating, merely criticising; is that a crime?

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factotum
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Re: Common Law.

Post by factotum » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:20 pm

Here's a story written over 30 years ago, it was in a publication I helped to edit. Strangely it still seems relevant. Are you sitting comfortably? ...

----------------

The Three Wise Passengers

(A Fable for Survivalists)

[Anthony, Glaneirw, Sept. 1977]

Once upon a time there was a great ship on a long cruise across the ocean. It was a very fine ship, with all the comforts and entertainments the passengers could want, so that they were never bored or troubled whatever the weather, and with only one class of accomodation (not counting the officers' quarters, which were naturally luxurious because they were such important people, and the crew's, which nobody worried about because they were mostly foreign or ignorant or both). It was a very long cruise, too, so long that children went to school and grew up on the ship.

Among these children were three lads called Tom, Dick and Harry, who had reached the age when they had to decide what careers they planned to make for themselves. Among the things they considered in deciding this were some very disturbing rumours that had begun to circulate among the passengers. It was said that the officers had miscalculated the ship's stores, and that vital supplies were beginning to run short; that the ship was being sailed into increasingly dangerous waters; and even that the ship was becoming unseaworthy through neglected maintenance.

Said Harry, "I plan to become a journalist, and write for the ship's magazine. That way I can acquire a great deal of influence to support the Passengers' Committee in its campaign for better conditions on board."

"That's all very well", said Dick, "but if the ship gets into trouble no amount of influence with the passengers will help you; and the officers really take very little notice of the Passengers' Committee. If you want to influence the ship's handling you should do as I intend to and join the ship's company as a junior officer to work up to a position where you can do some good."

"You may be right", said Tom, "but it will take you a long time to work your way up through the ship's hierarchy, and from what I hear, the problems are already serious. I am going to concentrate on studying the handling and navigation of the ship's lifeboats."

So they went their different ways. Harry soon became a very powerful figure in the ship, as he exposed bad planning and inefficiency and campaigned for "Passengers' Rights". The officers considered him a troublemaker, but many of the passengers felt he was the only one trying to help them.

Dick, as a junior officer, was sent below decks, where he found that things were even worse than he had heard. But he soon realised that his superiors did not want to know about the troubles he reported, preferring to believe the optimistic reports sent above decks by his colleagues; so he resolved to keep quiet and bide his time until he could reach a position powerful enough to put things right himself.

Tom found that most of the lifeboats were practically useless, because the officers considered it uneconomic to maintain them when they were not contributing anything to the ship's everyday operation, and that hardly anybody knew where they were or how to use them. They were not interested in such boring and old-fashioned things. So he studied sailmaking and carpentry and began to put the lifeboat nearest his quarters back into service. Most people could not understand why he bothered. They asked why he wanted to make himself a smaller and less efficient boat when he was on a perfectly good ship, or, if they agreed that the ship was in danger, why he didn't help Dick or Harry who were really doing something about it. But a few people who felt the same way joined him, and together they learned to catch fish with handlines, and navigate by the stars, and other skills that might be needed.

Now for some time the ship's officers had held that the helmsman should not touch the ship's wheel except on special emergency orders from the Captain, and that the ship should steer itself in accordance with the natural forces of navigation. This had given rise to several collisions with rocks, icebergs and suchlike obstacles in the past, but the damage had always been made good, although sometimes a few compartments had had to be abandoned. But finally the ship was holed in a part where the pumps had been dismantled and used for some other job, (the officer responsible had been congratulated by the Captain himself on the resulting efficiency of his section).

At first the senior officers could not understand why the leak was not being contained, because they seldom left their luxurious upper-deck quarters. When an officer finally went below he found that most of the watertight bulkheads were weakened by corrosion, it having been decided some time ago that it was more efficient to keep them clean by filing off the rust now and then, than by painting them. At last the Captain spoke over the ship's PA system, to say that there was no truth in the alarmist rumours that the ship was sinking. But, purely as a precautionary measure, passengers were requested to go to their lifeboat stations, if they could find an officer who could tell them where those were.

When the announcement was made, Harry was the guest of honour at a party celebrating his appointment as Chairman of the Passengers' Committee. He at once stood up and said that this was clearly a trick by the officers to create an excuse for further harm to the passengers' environment. So they jammed the doors shut and sat on the floor and sang "We shall not be moved". And when the lights went out they sang all the louder.

Dick had known for a long time about the state of the pumps, and had only been waiting for his promotion to Section Officer the year after next, to do something about them. Knowing that the crew were quite likely to refuse to work to stop the leak, seeing it as a chance to demand better pay and conditions from the officers, he went below to organise them -- and was drowned when a rusted bulkhead collapsed.

When Tom heard the Captain's announcement he knew that things must already be critical, so he and his friends went quietly to their lifeboat and began to prepare to cast off. But while they were swinging it over the side, a mob of passengers from the lower cabin decks, whose cabins had begun to flood, came running up and tried to scramble aboard. They let on as many as the boat would carry, but more tried to climb in, and finally they had to fight them off with boat-hooks as they lowered the boat to the water and began to pull away.

As they pulled away, heavily overloaded and with swimmers clinging to the boat and holding it back, the ship foundered at the bows, put up its stern and sank, making a tremendous vortex that pulled down everything in the water around it.

-------------

"... and when the lights went out the sung all the louder ..." :-)

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GrahamHart
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Re: Common Law.

Post by GrahamHart » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:31 pm

I regret my post to you last night Rosko, because in the heat of the moment I sank to your level. Lesson learned! Your not worth a nano-gram of my time. I'll let other forum members draw their own conclusions as to what you've said of me, just as they can do with factotum continually trying to move the nuts and bolts of this thread off topic.

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Marhak
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Re: Common Law.

Post by Marhak » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:31 pm

Christ, Keith....do you ever get out? You must have spent all afternoon typing that lot out. And it was such a beautiful day, too.

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factotum
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Re: Common Law.

Post by factotum » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:02 am

No, it was already on file, took me a few minutes to find it though ...

Thing is most of these things like alternative money, ethical banks, income/capital sharing etc. etc. are old ideas that have been tried over and over. A few schemes have had limited success and are still around, though like all 'revolutionary' projects they tend to become more 'conventional' and 'conservative' the longer they endure. Still these are the people you need to seek out and pick their brains if you're really interested in this sort of thing. Not rip-off merchants like the gang GH seems to have been hypnotised by who IMO haven't a clue what they're up against.

Rosko
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Re: Common Law.

Post by Rosko » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:31 pm

...not worth a nano-gram of my time. I'll let other forum members draw their own conclusions...
Let's... (with 2000 comments from you, I'm sure others can come to their own conclusions...)

PS nano-gram? Freudian slip?
PPS we liked you better when you played the sax and sang nationalist songs...

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factotum
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Re: Common Law.

Post by factotum » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:53 pm

More debunking of the (l)Awful Bank here (posts #2,16,17 especially) :

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195847

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185876

The guy who promotes the Awful Bank, keeps saying the real money they con off the punters to start it all up will be 'retired', probably as in 'retired to the Cayman Islands' no doubt along with said promoter. Actually now I think about it, there's a resemblance to a certain con perpetrated a few years back by our very own mock stannary when they sold large numbers of shares in a bogus mining company that were supposed to grant you immunity to the poll tax then in force. I confess I was taken in (share #0291) and even persuaded a few others to buy into the scheme. That was a long time ago before I knew anything about company law. Still I learned my lesson. We were assured that the fund collected would be used for the good of Cornwall. Since many people here and up country were keen to clutch at any straw that would get them out of paying the poll tax, they probably took in quite a pile of money. No one has ever been able to tell me what happened to it. Like Anonymous, "I don't forget, and I don't forgive", so I won't contribute to half-baked Cornish schemes. If you do ever feel like setting something up, for goodness sake take proper advice from people who can tell you how to do it within the law ... that's the real de-facto law that's imposed on us, not something else however much we might wish for it.

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GrahamHart
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Re: Common Law.

Post by GrahamHart » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:41 am

You said it defactotum. De facto law.
Freeman live by De Jure' law. That is; the truth coupled with common sense.
Here who you consider " A Nutter'" position on humanities' current situation in response to your opinion. He has since been released after serving 21 days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTVK3byi ... ure=fvwrel [ 3 mins 13 seconds.]

What do you think ? Do you think he was treated fairly ?

Rosko
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Re: Common Law.

Post by Rosko » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:37 am

.... the truth coupled with common sense.
I don't see much of either, in society, these days... It all starts at school. Bullshit English history and complete lack of authority (by teachers), responsibility and respect.

Makes for a work-shy, violent blame culture.... And it's crossed the border/Amazon into Cornwall.

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GrahamHart
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Re: Common Law.

Post by GrahamHart » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:29 am


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Marhak
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Re: Common Law.

Post by Marhak » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:53 pm

A man was recently arrested for burning a Remembrance Day poppy and posting pictures of it on the web. A pretty reprehensible act, most certainly, but illegal? An arrestable act? Seems to me that the police these days are making laws up to suit either themselves, or some wealthy ex-brigadier type in their local Lodge.

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Coady
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Re: Common Law.

Post by Coady » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:01 pm

What an interesting thread!

I am pretty sure that Common Law existed for at least a couple of hundred years before Magna Carta so I look askance at Graham's assertion that Magna Carta is the source of Common Law, it so clearly is not.

Frankly I believe that all the "Freeman" stuff is from people misunderstanding 'law' and interpreting it how they WANT it to be rather than how it is.

I also wonder, with it's adherents believing they can ignore or sidestep laws and legislation they no longer believe in, rejecting those aspects of our society, if they still accept the BENEFITS, such as state benefits, free NHS care, free state education, protection of their life and property by police, ambulance, and fire services, and whether they still watch TV without paying for the service....?????

All the above exist by and through LEGISLATION, not Common Law, and they are not "inalienable rights"

To me it comes down to what I have seen all my working life, plenty of mean spirited people squawking about their rights and what they are owed, but only a precious few interested in their DUTIES as part of our society.

Graham.
We live in interesting times!

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GrahamHart
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Re: Common Law.

Post by GrahamHart » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:04 pm

Graham - I have just written a detailed reply to your post, only to lose the bloody lot !!! I don't have time to do so again, so all I can ask is that you listen to this lady. Elizabeth Mary Croft. Fantastic interview....and not a scrounger in sight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHZTjTmrgjI

I would only add that all the evil in this world is funded by our money/slavery which we unwittingly give to this rotten corrupt system which the masses consent to. It has to stop and I for one [along with the other ever growing number of freeman] will not support it.

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Coady
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Re: Common Law.

Post by Coady » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:36 pm

Oh my goodness.

I'm sorry Graham, to promote this babbling misguided American woman who quite literally tells us nothing concrete as a "fantastic interview" tends to suggest you have lost your grip somewhat.

I am sorry you believe all this stuff and have gone down this road.

To be brutally frank, all this has nothing to do with Cornish Issues or Cornwall24 and it has reached the point where you are SPAMMING us.

I know you have been a loyal and popular contributor, as although I rarely post these days, I still pop in for a read now and again.

In the past you would have been quick to blast anyone using these pages to promote any religious or political dogma, but now that is EXACTLY what you are doing.

Please save it for other "Freeman Sites".

Please accept this with some affection and concern, but stop posting this stuff on this board.

Graham.
We live in interesting times!

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GrahamHart
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Re: Common Law.

Post by GrahamHart » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:19 pm

No offence taken Graham - but I was hoping your response would have been more critically constructive rather than just a negative overview, though to be fair, it is a little advanced. You really need to start here: http://www.yourstrawman.com/ and watch this five minute video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME7K6P7hlko

There is no doubt it is far removed from the crazy system of slavery we live under now and it takes awhile to get your head around how we've all been screwed all our lives.

You are correct to state it has nothing to do with Cornish issues....at present.

Stop posting this type of information on this board ? That's a bit fascist my luvver. ;)

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