A modest proposal of autonomy for Cornwall

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Fulub-le-Breton
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A modest proposal of autonomy for Cornwall

Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:35 pm

Autonomy for Cornwall: http://modestproposals.org.uk/2012/10/1 ... -cornwall/

Come and debate the idea and do leave some comments.

Rosko
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Re: A modest proposal of autonomy for Cornwall

Post by Rosko » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:04 pm

Stephen Richardson, this is really good!!

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Stephen Richardson
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Re: A modest proposal of autonomy for Cornwall

Post by Stephen Richardson » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:11 pm

Thankyou :)
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3cornishchoughs
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Re: A modest proposal of autonomy for Cornwall

Post by 3cornishchoughs » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:28 pm

Belatedly, a good, clear outline of just some of the reasons why Cornwall should and could pursue autonomy. The research being conducted on the constitutional status of the Duchy and Duke of Cornwall also needs to be included in the reasons why Cornwall is historically a different political unit from England.

Just today it has been announced that prospecting operations at South Crofty has revealed that a whopping £1.5 billion of metallic minerals would be recoverable from resumed operations in the area. The announcement suggests 220 new jobs but how much of the profit will actually remain in the Duchy? Albeit that the company running the operations (a complex corporate arrangement involving three companies) has major Australian and Canadian investment, if Cornwall had the powers to tax profits on resuming mining activities it could see much needed and deserved income stay in the Duchy. For the announcement see:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-20054062

Similarly the lack of support shown to Cornish towns has meant that out-of-scale and out-of-town multiples are siphoning off profits raised from the money people spend in Cornwall. And this in some places is even actively supported by the local authority and chambers of commerce (e.g. PZ Chamber of Commerce supporting the proposed Sainsbury's development at the heliport).

Cornish cultural, linguistic, historic, constitutional and economic distinctiveness and needs should be better promoted outside the Duchy. In many cases it is not the fault of people in England for thinking Cornwall is part of the same unit as them because it has never been properly and persistently explained to them. Cornwall's assumption in the 'South West' does not help either.

A systematic de-coupling from English institutions will help. Visit Cornwall has made a start as has Cornwall Heritage Trust. Maga, the Cornwall Channel too. But our media is controlled from outside as are many of our key buildings and institutions. In an orderly fashion we need to find ways of running these effectively from within and so the insidious excuse may never be given that people in Cornwall are incapable of running their own affairs.
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factotum
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Re: A modest proposal of autonomy for Cornwall

Post by factotum » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:04 am

But who or what has the political will and clout to do that? If there was any real aspiration for such things then MK or the like would be dominating Cornwall Council just as the SNP dominate the Scots Parliament.

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Marhak
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Re: A modest proposal of autonomy for Cornwall

Post by Marhak » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:32 am

The SNP was once regarded in a similar light: "Too small, so of no consequence". So was Plaid Cymru. Don't be so hasty in writing MK off, Keith.

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Marhak
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Re: A modest proposal of autonomy for Cornwall

Post by Marhak » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:35 am

In what way has the Cornwall Heritage Trust started to de-couple from English institutions? Last time I looked they were still cuddling "English" Heritage.

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factotum
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Re: A modest proposal of autonomy for Cornwall

Post by factotum » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:14 pm

Yes, the SNP was once a few hariy-arsed weirdos, it even went through a sort of neo-nazi phase at one fortunately limited stage, but that was then and this is now. A window of opportunity for bits of the Britain to break away *may* with luck and a following wind arise after Scotland dissolves the UK by nullifying the Treaty of Union (which it is fully entitled to do under the terms of said treaty). There is a possibility (no more) that Wales might pull through on the slipstream. But Cornwall is miles and miles behind. It's no use saying "we'll get there in time". How much time? 20 years? 40? I've been here well over 20 years and it's still the same limited minority calling 'Cornish rights' etc. Nothing has really changed. The petition was binned without comment. So much for self-determination! Do that anywhere else, show such naked contempt for a nation, and there'd be protests and demos and barricades from Pons Tamar to Penn an Wlaz. But there was nothing, not a squeak. Admit it, you're a small group that talks among yourselves and have never really moved public opinion. But even if you started now, and took another 20 or even 10 years, would there be any Cornwall left to save by then? If Scotland votes 'no' then the Tories, Labour, UKIP, who or whatever are in power will make very certain that their rules can never be challenged again. Devolution will be reversed pdq. Scotland will in effect be fully incorporated into England. If they vote 'yes' then they will escape to a bright European future, while the 'rump UK' will go into Tory led regressive isolation. Cornwall won't stand a snowball's chance in hell of retaining even what little distinctiveness it has now. And put out the dynnergh mat for Britain's WMD's because they'll be in your backyard on the Fal or the Tamar, the English will really have nowhere else to put them.

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Re: A modest proposal of autonomy for Cornwall

Post by Trevorpen » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:45 pm

I don't think Scotland will go down the independence route. The more it's debated the more it goes against splitting from the UK. Just look what's happened in a week:- keep the pond sterling despite interest rates etc being decided in London, despite Sammond's bleating - it looks like an independent Scotland would have to join the queue behind Serbia to join the EU.
The only beneficiaries from and independent Scotland would appear to be the rest of The UK as Scotland receives a disproportionate amount of taxes and could no longer vote on questions in Parliament on matters that affect only people living in this country.
As for Cornwall - any type of independence from the rest of England will never happen. It is hard to find anyone in Cornwall whom would like that. It will stay as a bit of a joke in the local pub.

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Mark
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Re: A modest proposal of autonomy for Cornwall

Post by Mark » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:44 pm

Trev's usual unsubstantiated rot! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
As long as a hundred of us remain alive, we shall never give in to the domination of the English. We fight not for glory, not for wealth nor honours but only and alone for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life...

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3cornishchoughs
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Re: A modest proposal of autonomy for Cornwall

Post by 3cornishchoughs » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:49 pm

Mahrak--what do you mean by 'cuddle up' to English Heritage?

A major issue is that because organisations like EH dispense statutory powers regarding heritage, the built environment, scheduling, listing and archaeology in what is currently regarded as England (and therefore _at the moment_ includes Cornwall) certain things _have_ to be done through EH.

Things were made worse when the Museums, Libraries and Archives Council was dissolved and its functions passed onto Arts Council England. This means Cornish museums and collections are lumped with those of the "South West" with Bristol City Council and Gloucester County Council in lead roles. There is no Cornish lead at present. A terribly retrograde move but one that can be reversed given the right motivation and intelligence at the Cornwall Council end.

Bear in mind also that several English regions also rue some of EH's centralist policies so it is a systemic problem not just one affecting Kernow. Things will change, but slowly (and surely).

I'm not sure what you are referring to otherwise but please enlighten me as it is quite likely I am ignorant of some things. I was merely referring to the management of certain sites in Cornwall done under Cornish auspices and decision-making through Cornwall Heritage Trust. If that isn't happening, I'd like to know about it.
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Trevorpen
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Re: A modest proposal of autonomy for Cornwall

Post by Trevorpen » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:12 pm

We shall see, Mark.
Your 'serious 'thoughts would be welcome as this is a discussion forum! (rather than a short irrelevant sentence with some simple 'smilies' inserted)

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Mark
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Re: A modest proposal of autonomy for Cornwall

Post by Mark » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:39 pm

Trev,
I agree with Stephen wholehearedly, as he already knows.
I disagree with you wholeheartedly, mainly because more-or-less everything you write is unsubstantiated, off-the-top-of-your-head, fanciful drivel. You sound like the drunk at the end of the bar who has an opinion on everything but has usually spectacularly missed the point and is in over his head.
You have had constitutional fact/history/legality/resources regarding Cornwall laid before you in an all-you-can-eat fashion for God knows how many years now and yet you ignore it all. So replying in a 'serious' manner to your risible comments is just too tedious to entertain. So I amuse myself instead, with short, very relevant sentences with some simple smilies inserted. :D
As long as a hundred of us remain alive, we shall never give in to the domination of the English. We fight not for glory, not for wealth nor honours but only and alone for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life...

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P_Trembath
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Re: A modest proposal of autonomy for Cornwall

Post by P_Trembath » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:00 am

Trevorpen wrote:I don't think Scotland will go down the independence route. The more it's debated the more it goes against splitting from the UK. Just look what's happened in a week:- keep the pond sterling despite interest rates etc being decided in London, despite Sammond's bleating - it looks like an independent Scotland would have to join the queue behind Serbia to join the EU.
If, as you suggest, Scotland has to apply for membership of the EU following it's independence, it follows that England will also have to apply for membership. It was, after all, the UK that joined the EU, not England. Therefore if the dissolvement of the UK removes Scotland from the EU, then it also removes England. :roll:

That being the case, should not UKip get behind the call for Scottish independence as it would, in one stroke, give them everything they've been asking for?...........................................................Apart from the UK bit. :shock:

This actually raises another question. With the removal of Scotland from the UK, there will be no United Kingdom. So what will the truncated remainder be called? :?

Answers on a postcard to Buck House. :lol:
Everyone, Cornish or otherwise, has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small; no one is too old or too young to do something.

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factotum
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Re: A modest proposal of autonomy for Cornwall

Post by factotum » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:35 am

The Formerly United Kingdom has been suggested, makes a fitting acronym ;-)
Also all the blue bits will have to go from the union flag ...
Also the NI Unionists will be thrown into confusion with no union to adhere to, and their loyalties split between the English establishment they serve and the Scottish roots many believe they have (Not that the Scots outside a few backward areas of Glasgow would touch them with a bargepole!)
Anyway it will throw the constitutional status into relief. The problem being that unlike Scotland, Wales has no history of being an united nation state, apart possibly from the few years of Glyndŵr's rebellion. Welsh identity is basically linguistic and cultural rather than political. Wales as a distinct political entity is of recent growth, its powers given at England's pleasure. Which means they can take it all back anytime it suits them. So it will probably be touch and go whether Wales manages to pull further away or whether the English, enraged by Scotland's 'escape' quickly put devolution into reverse, abolish the Welsh government etc. as is UKIP policy I believe.
Actually the only possible hope would be for Cornwall to throw in its lot with Wales, but you lot all seem to hate the Welsh, so the English will probably hang you both separately.

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