Cornwall Councillors Give Themselves A 20% Pay-Rise

Topical debate
zennorman2
Posts: 375
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:50 pm

Re: Cornwall Councillors Give Themselves A 20% Pay-Rise

Post by zennorman2 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:31 am

An indepedent commission to decide Councillors pay would be wholly prefereable to people voting themselves pay rises. This should be a Cornwall commission and made up of people selected rather like a jury system rather than the so called 'great and good'.

Rosko
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:45 am

Re: Cornwall Councillors Give Themselves A 20% Pay-Rise

Post by Rosko » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:22 pm

Something like that Zennorman, though the Cornish commission looking into this should be made up of people with a minimum understanding of Cornish economics, wages, employment, business environment, politics, inflation, etc... So maybe not based on a jury-selection system...

Doesn't have to be the great & the good, but... some knowledge of Cornish affairs undoubtedly helps!

Carbilly
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:43 pm

Re: Cornwall Councillors Give Themselves A 20% Pay-Rise

Post by Carbilly » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:05 pm

Stephen Richardson wrote:
If you want a council entirely made up of elderly, retired Tories then do away with allowances all together. if you want to encourage younger people from different social backgrounds then they have to be able to afford to be able to do the job.
Agree with this 100%. Not saying for a minute that I'd stand for council, but I sure as hell couldn't afford to do so at the moment even if I wanted to, and I know for a fact that I'm not unique amongst Cornish people in that regard. Why should important decisions that affect all in Kernow be left in the hands of people of independent means, many of who don't exactly have the best interests of the indigenous population at heart? A good example of this is Fiona Ferguson - barely been here five minutes, elected on a wafer thin majority (probably by other similar home-counties 'blow-ins') and already a 'Cabinet' member!

User avatar
Stephen Richardson
Posts: 310
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:03 pm

Re: Cornwall Councillors Give Themselves A 20% Pay-Rise

Post by Stephen Richardson » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:18 pm

It will be interesting to see how many who voted against the rise offer to forego the increase or give up their allowance altogether. I know one councillor voted for the rise said that he did so because it was necessary for some councillors but said that he wouldn't be taking the increase himself.

The vote was recorded so it should be possible to see exactly who voted for and against.

Jude Robinson voted for the rise.
When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.

User avatar
GrahamHart
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 8:26 pm

Re: Cornwall Councillors Give Themselves A 20% Pay-Rise

Post by GrahamHart » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:24 pm

Some very interesting comments here, but we seem to have forgotten that government - at all levels - are the servants of the people. However, the system is now so rotten and so corrupt - and has been for eons - that nothing is performed in our interest anymore. Therefore they are in breach of our trust.

Here we are in the 21st century and yet we hardly question the fact that our servants are giving themselves a pay rise without our consent. It's an absolutely insane situation and it has to stop ! Did you know that the first £300 of your council tax goes directly to a gold bonded pension fund for councillors ? And another portion goes directly to the European Union to fund the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq?

When you realise that these are all corporations and you have no contract with them, you are now in the position to say: "Screw it ! I refuse to fund council pensions and war machines so I quit the system". If you want to stop this filth, then take responsibility for your own life. Without them unlawfully taking your money, the game is up.Wars end. Corruption ends. Personally, there are many other reasons, but this will do for starters !

Crowsanwra
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:02 pm

Re: Cornwall Councillors Give Themselves A 20% Pay-Rise

Post by Crowsanwra » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:50 pm

if you dont pay your council tax, they send the bailifs out on you, if you dont pay then you go to prison. Takes a brave person not to pay bills like council tax!!!!!! I dont pay a tele lucence any more nor do loads of others I know but council tax and income tax if you dont pay you can end up in clink!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crowsanwra
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:02 pm

Re: Cornwall Councillors Give Themselves A 20% Pay-Rise

Post by Crowsanwra » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:44 pm

Have a read if ur brave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! refrence Council tax -

http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Summone ... story.html

User avatar
GrahamHart
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 8:26 pm

Re: Cornwall Councillors Give Themselves A 20% Pay-Rise

Post by GrahamHart » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:09 am

I must correct myself and state; that I am 'withholding' my council tax and not 'refusing' to pay as I said in my last post. As soon as they show me the contract between this particular corporation and myself {there isn't one} I will gladly pay.

:) This propaganda makes me smile. :)

It's approaching that time again when Cornwall Council next apply to the Magistrates' court for Council Tax liability orders. This is only one of several applications made to the court each year. These are necessary to obtain legal paperwork enabling recovery staff to pursue struggling council taxpayers for arrears.

"Legal paperwork" Not "Lawful paperwork". Legal is by consent; which I don't. And no one is "Liable" to any statute unless they consent to it. Remember this battle cry: " SHOW ME THE CONTRACT !!!"

Every householder has the right to attend the hearing – Article 6 of the Human Rights Act :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Which is : Article 6: Right to a fair trial. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Not much chance of that seeing as the whole thing is THE COUNCIL !!! And with the nerve, to be trading as Cornwall County Council ! A private company.

Once an order is granted, a number of options are available to enforce payment including bailiffs, attachment of earnings or benefits, bankruptcy and committal to jail.
Already, householders will have accrued £35 costs. The Summons comprises a court fee and the authority's administration costs. The court's fee is £3 for each application whether or not Magistrates grant the order, which If obtained costs residents a further £20. Last year saw 21,313 account payers summoned to appear at the Magistrates' court, where 14,982 liability orders were granted. This means at £35 for each summons and £20 for a liability order, the costs raised by the council totalled more than £1.04 million – an average £87,133 a month.
Oh yes. A very well worded, piece of scaremongering. But there is remedy.


An application for an award of costs is made at each court hearing for the Benches consideration. Though in practice they have already been decided and a demand made around two weeks in advance of the scheduled court date.
Good grief! They are actually telling you here, that you are guilty before you've even been to trial !!!!!!!

Whilst the authority will have notified the Clerk to the Justices of these costs, the court may wish to be satisfied that the amount claimed by way of costs in any individual case is no more than that reasonably incurred by the authority, so although these costs have been predetermined they can be challenged in court. How kind of them. I wonder how many even know that when they enter the Circus ring ?

Every householder has the right to attend the hearing and appear before Magistrates in accordance with Article 6 (right to a fair trial) of the Human Rights Act 1998. :) :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: And we close with a little bit of reassurance. What bollox. All of it.

The remedy is to 'know your rights', which most, didn't know they had in the first place. Discovering them is the most fun learning I've ever had in my life. Know your rights and their world of fear just falls away. Bring it on !

Crowsanwra
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:02 pm

Re: Cornwall Councillors Give Themselves A 20% Pay-Rise

Post by Crowsanwra » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:03 pm

Rite then. I dont pay a tele luicence cos I dont see why I should. More arent bothering and the letters get chucked and they arent allowed inside the house and we know that, one bloke even tore up his licence in front radio anything but Cornwall a few year ago on youtube and I know he dont pay nor do many of my mates come to that.

But if the council people come can you just turn them away and what happens when the courts arrest you? Can you just say I arent refusing to pay I am withholding payment til you show me a piece of paper with my signature agreeing to pay?

If its as easy as all that then thousands would stop paying and noone would end up being sent down but who then pays to take the bins away etc etc?

zennorman2
Posts: 375
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:50 pm

Re: Cornwall Councillors Give Themselves A 20% Pay-Rise

Post by zennorman2 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:28 pm

If there was an independent commission it must not have those (eg ex councillors) who could be construed to have a vested interest on it. There also needs to be a legal framework which allows people to carry on working part time and enable them to be councillors. I am not convinced it is a full time job - it is what you make of it - but a legal framework would be important in a region like Cornwall where people may feel under pressure from employers if they stand for council but their politics is not the same as that of the boss.

Bottom line is though that voting for your own pay rise at a time of pay cuts and job losses for many others in Cornwall is foolish. There are people who have to rely on less that £14,600 a year around us.

CJenkin
Posts: 1332
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:01 pm

Re: Cornwall Councillors Give Themselves A 20% Pay-Rise

Post by CJenkin » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:37 pm

Having a low-wage economy is no excuse for low paid councillors. A fair wage for full-time councillors should be the same as the average salary in Cornwall.
The review body recommended much higher, but councillors voted for a lower amount. Before people stood the proposed level for new unitary councillors was supposed to be 18,000 instead they stuck with the same as the old county councillors not reflecting the combination of district and county roles. Taxpayers already have had savings on democracy by combining the councils and shedding 200 councillors, all this is a more realistic adjustment that reflects the new roles - with ignorant opposition wipped up by the press - the real target ought to be the politicians at westminster who really are lining their own pockets remember Goldsworthy and that chair!

User avatar
GrahamHart
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 8:26 pm

Re: Cornwall Councillors Give Themselves A 20% Pay-Rise

Post by GrahamHart » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:40 pm

The whole system is as corrupt as it could possibly be now Conan. The only way to beat it is to opt out completely. No Money for them equals no corruption, no wars and a big no to all the evil that goes with it. Screw the lot. I can manage perfectly well without them.

zennorman2
Posts: 375
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:50 pm

Re: Cornwall Councillors Give Themselves A 20% Pay-Rise

Post by zennorman2 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:04 pm

CJenkin wrote:Having a low-wage economy is no excuse for low paid councillors. A fair wage for full-time councillors should be the same as the average salary in Cornwall.
The review body recommended much higher, but councillors voted for a lower amount. Before people stood the proposed level for new unitary councillors was supposed to be 18,000 instead they stuck with the same as the old county councillors not reflecting the combination of district and county roles. Taxpayers already have had savings on democracy by combining the councils and shedding 200 councillors, all this is a more realistic adjustment that reflects the new roles - with ignorant opposition wipped up by the press - the real target ought to be the politicians at westminster who really are lining their own pockets remember Goldsworthy and that chair!
But are they really or do they need to be full time Conan? Is there REALLY a need for a Councillor to sit through each and all parish council meetings? Some meetings Councillors attend have little point to them regarding their contribution. A lot of the problem is the way that we do things in this country. The role and function of local government (eg where there is privatisation) should also influence their pay (not that I agree with privatisation).

Two wrongs do not make a right. Goldsworthy, George etc are paid nationally. Without devolution Cornwall simply does not have the money to pay for these rises. The Councillors sho voted for this need to be clear where the money is coming from.

User avatar
Stephen Richardson
Posts: 310
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:03 pm

Re: Cornwall Councillors Give Themselves A 20% Pay-Rise

Post by Stephen Richardson » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:51 am

zennorman2 wrote:
But are they really or do they need to be full time Conan? Is there REALLY a need for a Councillor to sit through each and all parish council meetings? Some meetings Councillors attend have little point to them regarding their contribution. A lot of the problem is the way that we do things in this country.
Good point - but the problem is that there is already a big element of 'voluntary community service' built in to the way that councillors are paid (e.g it is assumed that they carry out a large proportion of their duties on a voluntary basis and so are not remunerated for it).

On top of this - although people moan about pay, as soon as a councillor does miss a meeting there are a lot people who are up in arms claiming that the councillor isn't doing their job properly and if they don't attend community events then they will be seen as not caring about their local community.

It is also important that councillors keep themselves informed as to what is happening in the community - there is no easy way to do this - it is simple hard work - attending meetings that aren't strictly necessary etc.

Basically people want councillors who are prepared to put in all the hard work but then don't want to pay for that work. This is why there are so many financially independent people standing as councillors - they can afford to treat it as a hobby.
When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.

zennorman2
Posts: 375
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:50 pm

Re: Cornwall Councillors Give Themselves A 20% Pay-Rise

Post by zennorman2 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:07 pm

Then one solution Stephen is that parish council meetings are streamed on the internet as they do with Cornwall Council meetings. Cornwall Councillors could then watch the proceedings and contribute via Skype etc rather than claiming for time and travel that is pointless. I guess that some older or traditionalist people in the community might object to that as they want to see the 'whites of the eyes' of the councillor but the alternative is wasting time and money. Sitting through long, borrowing, pointless meetings for some relevant nuggets is perhaps something that prospective councillors should be warned about to establish whether they really want to be elected. Less meetings and more focus can also make a councillor more effective.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest