When was St. Pirans Flag first used

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Seaforth
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:32 pm

Post by Seaforth » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:06 am

On another forum I was asked how old the Cornish flag was.
Did a search here but could not find any info on it.
Anyone have any information?

Hen
Posts: 729
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:52 am

Post by Hen » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:37 pm


"Seaforth" said:
Did a search here but could not find any info on it.




Why? Did you misspell 'flag'? :D *That's a joke, Joyce.*

This is what my searches brought up ....


The Cornish Flag is a black background with a white cross. The flag of Cornwall is actually the the flag of St. Piran but it has been adopted as the Cornish National flag as St. Piran is the Patron Saint of Cornwall. Whilst having a certain popularity in Cornwall today, the flag does not appear to be more than a few hundred years old. Nobody has produced old manuscripts or paintings that date it any earlier than the 18th century.

http://www.cornwall-calling.co.uk/corni ... h-flag.htm



And ...


The earliest written evidence of this flag was recorded by Davies Gilbert in his 1838 work: 'The Parochial History of Cornwall', Vol III, p. 332.He gives reference to "a white cross on a black ground [that] was formerly the banner of St. Perran and the Standard of Cornwall"One of the oldest depictions of the flag can be seen in a stained glass window at Westminster Abbey. It was unveiled in 1888 in memory of the famous Cornish inventor and engineer Richard Trevithick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Piran's_Flag



It would seem it is only around 170 years old. Though it is a hotly debated point of contention. :)

CJenkin
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Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:01 pm

Post by CJenkin » Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:16 am



It would seem it is only around 170 years old. Though it is a hotly debated point of contention.



Hen, I think it would be fair to say that the first written record of the flag is only around 170 years old.
Davies Gilbert is quite unequivocable that it existed 'formerly'. How much 'formely' is up for debate. He states that it is the banner associated with St. Perran. As this kind of religious iconography (saint's flags) were suppressed by the reformation in the 1530s. It certainly suggests that it has a history before this point. Interestingly the perran family of Brittany use a similar motif.
There's little doubt in my mind that it's at least 500 years old and the likelihood is that it derives from the medieval period.

The Rev. Lach-Smyrna was also flying it in the 1870s.

FlammNew
Posts: 1777
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:29 pm

Post by FlammNew » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:14 am


"Hen" said:
It would seem it is only around 170 years old.



*sigh* Once again, someone is taking lack of evidence as evidence of lack. A lack of earlier mention in extant texts doesn't mean that the flag wasn't used formerly, or that it wasn't mentioned in texts that are now lost. I think that CJenkin's estimate of at least 500 years is reasonable.

As the Celts had an oral tradition, the written evidence of their music, for example, occurs quite late in Celtic history - would you therefore suggest that there was NO Celtic music before someone wrote it down?


Though it is a hotly debated point of contention. :)



Especially when people don't analyse the evidence logically. :wink:

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