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Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:49 am
by Carbilly
The surname Angove is descended from Angof, 'the Smith', as in Myghal Joseph. Often, in the context of Myghal Joseph, the name is pronounced 'Angoff', to rhyme with 'Off'. Was the original pronunciation of Angof to rhyme with 'guv', or was it, as in the current pronunciation of the surname, to rhyme with 'hove'.

Either way, does the historic spelling and modern pronunciation of the name prove that a single 'f' in Cornish was pronounced the same as in Welsh - ie, as a 'V' sound.

Hope this all makes sense!:lol:

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:04 pm
by CJenkin
Carbilly said:
The surname Angove is descended from Angof, 'the Smith', as in Myghal Joseph. Often, in the context of Myghal Joseph, the name is pronounced 'Angoff', to rhyme with 'Off'. Was the original pronunciation of Angof to rhyme with 'guv', or was it, as in the current pronunciation of the surname, to rhyme with 'hove'.
Either way, does the historic spelling and modern pronunciation of the name prove that a single 'f' in Cornish was pronounced the same as in Welsh - ie, as a 'V' sound.
Hope this all makes sense!:lol:


Historical spelling was not fixed and f and v were often interchangeable. The clue in many cornish names is to look for the silent english e and remove it. When English went through the great vowel shift english pronunciation of vowels shifted and unfortunately we generally now apply that to Cornish words - so originally it was An Gov(e) i.e Gov which neither rhymes with off or hove or guv.
But you are quite right the final sound is certainly 'v'.

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:31 am
by Marhak
I understand the vowel to be long, so 'gauv'.

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:59 pm
by CJenkin
yes the vowel is long, the IPA using x-sampa is ['gO:v] whether gauv represents that sound only marhak could tell us.
I find NJ Williams explanation of length helpful. You might like to think of the vowel being prolonged e.g. g OOO v to distinguish it from a short (or half-long) vowel.
Personally I think people can worry too much about recommended realisation - there's plenty of room for some variation in vowel realisation in spoken Cornish and they are usually mutually intelligible.

Re: Angof

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:46 pm
by Mark
Just come across a 'William Angoffe' in the Muster Roll for Ludgvan in 1569.

Re: Angof

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:03 pm
by Pokorny
In 16th century Cornish texts, double consonants were sometimes written after long vowels, e.g. kigg and kigge for 'meat, flesh' [ki:g] (= approximately "keeg") in Sacrament an Aulter (1576).
In the same text, we also find the spelling gwiell for 'to do' [gwi:l] (probably pronounced like "gweel" after the French-style Middle Cornish vowel u had become unrounded), with double l after the long vowel. The distribution of -v, -f, and -ff is also often ambiguous. So the 1569 spelling Angoffe may well have stood for the traditional Cornish pronunciation [an'gɔ:v] (= "an GAUV").

Re: Angof

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:38 pm
by Marhak
Above Ludgvan, on the southern slopes of Castle-an-dinas but technically in Gulval parish, is the farm of Hellangove. hel= 'hall' + an gov, 'the smith' or the surname 'Angov'