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Dhyworth Moscow gans kerensa

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:55 am
by Pedrevan
Hou, oll!
My 37 yw. My a dryg yn Moscow hag a dhysk Kernewek gans KDL.

Well, my Cornish is not good enough… Because my self-learning is not enough regular. Even my English is not perfect.

Why do I take an interest in Cornish? I don’t know. I like languages of small nations. And I like languages in the whole.

The Cornishmen do good trying to revive own language. Some people supposes it won’t be success but I don’t think so. The Jews have done the same, for instance. As I can see, people of your region are in earnest about it.

So… I have several questions to you.

• If somebody tries to speak in Cornish in your county with people in a street how many of them will be able to answer him? I read only about 300 can speak fluently and about 3000 can say few words. Does the Cornish speech sound in streets of your towns?
• What’s the Cornish for “Russia, Russian”? And also “warrior”, “sword”. The dictionary I’ve got is not complete.
• What is the difference between the constructions “my a dhysk” and “my a wra dysky”?
• I’ve found a wonderful song in Cornish by Brenda Wootton. The name… something like “Day soon witten” (?). Have you got the words?
• By the way – have you got an information about other songs like that? I’ve got only two videos – “Pellwolok an Gernewegva” and “Ysolt y'nn gweinten”. But they are not so nice like the 1st one.

Well... Gonn meur ras dhywgh a... attention. Dha weles!

Re: Dhyworth Moscow gans kerensa

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:25 am
by Marhak
Yo, Pedrevan, ha wolcum owgh whi.
Russia = Russia, Russy
Russian = Russek
Warrior = breseler, pl. bresoryon (m.); breselyas, pl. breselysy (m.); soudor, pl. soudoryon (m.); casor, pl. casoryon (m.)
Sword = cledha, cledhev, pl. cledhevyow (m.)

Video: google - YouTube mediaeval baebes temptasyon. Beautiful.

Re: Dhyworth Moscow gans kerensa

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:02 am
by factotum
The original final unstressed -v of 'sword' was long lost in Cornish. The sing. is just _kledhe_ later _kledha_ and in the plural the -v was replaced by -dh-, so _kledhydhyow_. [Nb. despite the dictionaries having pl. _-edhyow_ the texts have _y_ in 5 cases out of 6, also cf. Welsh _cleddyf_. Once the final -v was dropped, the resulting final -y would change to -e before the time of the texts, but remain as y in the plural].
For warrior you might also have _kador_ (from the OCV) or BK's _gwerryor_. Since _bresel_ is really 'quarrel, strife', _breselyer_ is more 'one who quarrels or creates strife' (now where would you find those??) rather than 'warrior'. Perhaps _breselyas_ would be better. However both are modern creations, so I suppose they can mean whatever modern users choose to use them for.
The word we use for 'Russian' is _russek_ and for 'Russia' the dictionary suggests _Russi_ presumably from Latin (?). I think I'd prefer something like _Russtir_ or _Gwlaz an Russ_ 'Land of the Russ' (or should that be 'Rus' ?)

Re: Dhyworth Moscow gans kerensa

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:04 am
by Marhak
He only wanted simple answers to simple questions, Keith. I'm just pleased that a person so far away has taken such an interest in our language.

Re: Dhyworth Moscow gans kerensa

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:53 pm
by factotum
I agree. Unfortunately, Cornish being what it is, there often are no simple answers, nor indeed often any completely right answers. Still, some are a bit more right than others.

Re: Dhyworth Moscow gans kerensa

Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:41 pm
by Pedrevan
Marhak wrote:He only wanted simple answers to simple questions, Keith. I'm just pleased that a person so far away has taken such an interest in our language.
No, no, Marhak! I like such complete answers too. I take a great interest in etimology of words. For example, your 'muryon' sounds similar to the Russian [murav'ey]. And 'mor' - to our [mor'e]... About "Russian" - we call us sg. ['russkiy] pl.['russkiye]. The word Rus [Rus'] with the soft [s] is the old name of the country.
By the way, thank you very much for the information!
Kador? Isn't it 'arm-chair'?
I've got two types of dictionaries. An electronic one (freelang dictionary) gives for the word ‘snake’ “gorthfyl” but “An English - Cornish Glossary in the Standard Written Form” gives “sarf”. Is these just two variants like with "warrior"?
...What is "wolcum"?

Dha weles!

Re: Dhyworth Moscow gans kerensa

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:34 pm
by factotum
I've never seen 'gorthfyl' it's a compound of _mil_ 'animal' (also _enyval_ from Latin, and _best_ from French or English!) I see now from the GM that 'gorthfyl' was Nance's misreading of an Old Cornish word that should probably be _goedhvil_ which means 'wild animal'. There are two words for snake, _sarf_ which is 'serpent' from Latin, and _nader_ which is Celtic, but parallels Latin _natrix_. (Also English 'Adder', "A nadder" > "an adder"!)

IIRC _gwlaz_ 'country' is the same word as Czech 'vlast', so maybe you have this in Russian too?

Online dictionary here http://www.howlsedhes.co.uk/cgi-bin/diskwe.pl

Re: Dhyworth Moscow gans kerensa

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:36 am
by Pedrevan
Meur ras a'n gerlyver!
Yes, the similarity between our words is conditioned by the common origin of the Indo-European languages.

Re: Dhyworth Moscow gans kerensa

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:12 pm
by Marhak
I should have written "wolcom". Wolcomma, wolcobma, "to welcome", took over from dynerhy in the Late Cornish period.

Re: Dhyworth Moscow gans kerensa

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:24 am
by Pedrevan
And what is more popular? "Wolkom" or "a'gas dinnergh"?

Re: Dhyworth Moscow gans kerensa

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:48 am
by carrek
In the modern language I would say "a'gas dynnargh" sees the most use.

Re: Dhyworth Moscow gans kerensa

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:11 pm
by pietercharles
I think you may be right about "a'gas dynnargh" seeing the most use in the modern language.

It is, however, wrong. It should be "a'gas dynnergh".

"dynnargh" is the imperative (quite hard to use, given its meaning. A bit like shouting 'greet!") and the noun (which is, on the other hand, quite shoutable).

Re: Dhyworth Moscow gans kerensa

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:20 am
by carrek
Che a lavar gwir!

Re: Dhyworth Moscow gans kerensa

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:39 am
by carrek
Pedrevan wrote:Hou, oll!
My 37 yw. My a dryg yn Moscow hag a dhysk Kernewek gans KDL.

Well, my Cornish is not good enough… Because my self-learning is not enough regular. Even my English is not perfect.

Why do I take an interest in Cornish? I don’t know. I like languages of small nations. And I like languages in the whole.

The Cornishmen do good trying to revive own language. Some people supposes it won’t be success but I don’t think so. The Jews have done the same, for instance. As I can see, people of your region are in earnest about it.

So… I have several questions to you.

• If somebody tries to speak in Cornish in your county with people in a street how many of them will be able to answer him? I read only about 300 can speak fluently and about 3000 can say few words. Does the Cornish speech sound in streets of your towns?
Not really. It's likely that most people in Cornwall have passed someone in the street who can speak Cornish, but because they weren't speaking Cornish at the time, they didn't know. English is naturally the first language people use to talk to strangers.
Pedrevan wrote:• What’s the Cornish for “Russia, Russian”? And also “warrior”, “sword”. The dictionary I’ve got is not complete.
Russy, Russek, breseler, cledha
Pedrevan wrote:• What is the difference between the constructions “my a dhysk” and “my a wra dysky”?
I don't think there is really any huge difference, they are just two ways of saying the same thing. If you say "a wra" then you can just use the infinitive (dysky) instead of conjugating the verb (dysk)
Pedrevan wrote:• I’ve found a wonderful song in Cornish by Brenda Wootton. The name… something like “Day soon witten” (?). Have you got the words?
It's De Sul Vyttyn and is on YouTube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwk0MXnA-Vg

Some commenters there have posted the words in English and Cornish:

De sul vyttyn, ty ym gwelly, golow deth yu namnygen,
Gwaith yth esos-ta owth huna, tom ha clos ryb ow thenewen,
Kellys yn neb bys abell, pell dres gweles a dhyfun,
Ty a garaf, ty an gwythyas oll ow bew.
My a vyr whare ow uryor, eth ur passyes solabrys,
Ath dyfynaf gans ow hussyn, tys a tryllyf tre ym bewnan?
Ath dyfynaf? Ogh! Na! Na! An pols gwynvys-ma ny dhur!
Ty a garaf, ty an gwythyas oll ow bew.

Sunday morning, you in my bed, it's daylight just now,
Still you are sleeping, warm and snug by my side,
Lost in some far-off land, far beyond a sight which awakens,
You I love, you the guardian of all my being.
I soon see my watch, eight hours passed already,
Do I wake you with my kiss, do I bring you back into my life?
Do I wake you? Oh! No! No! This precious moment will not last!
You I love, you the guardian of all my being.
Pedrevan wrote:• By the way – have you got an information about other songs like that? I’ve got only two videos – “Pellwolok an Gernewegva” and “Ysolt y'nn gweinten”. But they are not so nice like the 1st one.
There are some more on YouTube, favourites of mine are:

Clegh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byK6GQ6-Gq8
Delyo Syvy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5oSOfAelO8

Re: Dhyworth Moscow gans kerensa

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:04 pm
by Pedrevan
Hou!
Gonn meur ras a'n ganow hag a'n geryow, Carrek!

By the way... My wife is a rock-musician. She with her sister have their art-rock group and sing songs in English. If it's interesting... http://www.eternalwanderers.ru