NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE POLICE RAIDS A REGULAR FEATURE

Discussion about what\'s going on outside of Cornwall
Cormorant
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Re: NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE POLICE RAIDS A REGULAR FEAT

Post by Cormorant » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:20 pm

Just to balance that (and no one - least of all me - condones senseless violence), can you tell us how many Basque deaths, injuris, false imprisonments, etc, can be attributed to the Madrid governments?

Balance, Marhak?

I cannot tell you, or anyone else how many Basque deaths, injuris,,(sic),false imprisonments, etc, can be attributed to the Madrid governments?

But if you want balance, I would doubt very much that the Madrid governments have planted bombs where innocent men, women and children have been killed or maimed?

I would be very careful who you "climbed into bed with" Marhak.

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Marhak
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Re: NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE POLICE RAIDS A REGULAR FEAT

Post by Marhak » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:28 pm

It's not a case of "climbing into bed with anyone", and please don't issue "warnings". Just asking for facts across the board. What about the invasion of Iraq, Cormorant. How do you feel about that? How do you feel about the large number of innocent civilians killed by, say, the aerial bombardment that opened it? Most seem agreed that the invasion by the US and the UK was illegal. Wouldn't you agree that what happened was every bit as much terrorism as anything perpetrated by ETA? The fact that nation states were responsible should not colour anyone's view about that. States are just as culpable of terrorism as groups like ETA, Al-Qaeda, IRA, etc.

Cormorant
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Re: NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE POLICE RAIDS A REGULAR FEAT

Post by Cormorant » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:48 pm

Warnings, Marhak?

I would be careful is seen by you as a warning?

Then you "move the goalposts" to a point about Iraq?

Most seem agreed that the invasion by the US and the UK was illegal.

Most, Marhak?

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Marhak
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Re: NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE POLICE RAIDS A REGULAR FEAT

Post by Marhak » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:49 pm

Yes, most. Both here and in the States. And, rather than "move goalposts", I widened the scope of the discussion to make the point that nation-states are just as guilty of terrorism as are small groups. It's not just one-sided and, indeed, the one begat the other.

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Re: NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE POLICE RAIDS A REGULAR FEAT

Post by Cormorant » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:00 pm

Then perhaps we can say All would condemn any organisation, government or individual, who would deliberately plant a device, knowing that innocents would be killed or maimed, whatever the "political" motive, philosophy or ideal?

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Marhak
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Re: NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE POLICE RAIDS A REGULAR FEAT

Post by Marhak » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:25 pm

I would certainly agree with that.

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Re: NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE POLICE RAIDS A REGULAR FEAT

Post by Cormorant » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:35 am

At last!

Something we agree on! :lol:

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Marhak
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Re: NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE POLICE RAIDS A REGULAR FEAT

Post by Marhak » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:42 am

There you go - a nice start to a Monday morning. :D

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Marhak
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Re: NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE POLICE RAIDS A REGULAR FEAT

Post by Marhak » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:14 pm

Now there's an example. Soem suicde bomber has just killed 35 passengers and people waiting to greet them at an airport outside Moscow. What the hell was the point of that? Someone said the purpose of terrorism was to terrorise, but what is the point of terrorising, maiming and killing peope who play no part in whatever decision process was cause of the terrorists' grievance. It's totally senseless and achieves nothing but to harden attitudes against the culprits. Surely, if they believe that injustice has been done against them, isn't it better to make friends and build allies than to create further enemies? If there has to be a target in the first place, then innocent bystanders are most definitely the wrong target.

Cormorant
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Re: NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE POLICE RAIDS A REGULAR FEAT

Post by Cormorant » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:20 pm

Just look at this little lot!

* Aralar, leftist political party
* Askatasuna, support for ETA prisoners.
* Batasuna, leftist political party, illegal in the southern Basque Country because of relations with the separatist organization ETA
* Batzarre
* Comunión Nacionalista Vasca, former political party
* ELA-STV, trade union
* Enbata
* ETA, separatist organization operating mainly in the southern Basque Country
* Etxerat, support for Basque political prisoners
* Euskadiko Ezkerra, former leftist political party
* Euskal Ezkerra, a splinter of Euskadiko Ezkerra.
* Eusko Abertzale Ekintza, leftist political party
* Eusko Alkartasuna, Social-Democratic political party
* ESAIT, support for the Basque National teams in different sports
* Gazte Abertzaleak, the youth group of the Spanish Basque political party Eusko Alkartasuna, left of the PNV but not aligned with ETA or Batasuna
* Gestoras pro-Amnistía, support for ETA prisoners.
* Herria 2000 Eliza, Catholic movement
* Ikasle Abertzaleak, Group of Basque nationalist students
* Iparretarrak, violently clandestine organization operating in the French part of the Basque Country
* Irrintzi, armed organization of the French Basque Country.
* Jagi-Jagi, former magazine
* LAB, leftist trade union
* Nafarroa Bai, Navarrese political party (coalition between some Basque nationalist political parties)
* Partido Nacionalista Vasco, Christian-Democrat political party
* Senideak, relatives of ETA prisoners.
* Segi, Batasuna's youth group
* Udalbiltza, assembly of city councillors
* Zutik, leftist party

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Re: NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE POLICE RAIDS A REGULAR FEAT

Post by Cormorant » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:25 pm

I think the Basque people agree with you, Marhak.

The Euskobarometro, the survey carried out by the Universidad del País Vasco (University of the Basque Country), asking about the views of ETA within the Basque population, has obtained these results in May 2009 64% rejected ETA totally, 13% identified themselves as former ETA sympathisers (mainly during the Franco dictatorship) who no longer support the group. Another 10% agreed with ETA's ends, but not their means. 3% said that their attitude towards ETA was mainly one of fear, 3% expressed indifference and 3% were undecided or did not answer. About 3% gave ETA "justified, with criticism" support (supporting the group but criticising some of their actions) and only 1% gave ETA total support. Even within Batasuna voters, at least 48% rejected ETA's violence.


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Marhak
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Re: NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE POLICE RAIDS A REGULAR FEAT

Post by Marhak » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:07 pm

Sorry, but don't quite get the point of your list (yes - a LIST!). Looking through, I see two trade unions (leftist? What trade union isn't?), several lawful political parties, an assembly of city councillors, a sports group... Where's the problem with those?

Despite silly Sun stories, Cornwall does not have a terrorist unit or, as far as I'm aware, any illegal organisations. However, it does have some highly doubtful groups imported from east of the Tamar. Common Purpose is one such.

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Re: NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE POLICE RAIDS A REGULAR FEAT

Post by Cormorant » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:17 pm

Sorry!

The List is of Basque separist movements in the Basque region.

Some are defunct.

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Re: NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE POLICE RAIDS A REGULAR FEAT

Post by Cormorant » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:24 pm

Not the point I was trying to make, Marhak.

There are SO many of them!

I never said Cornwall had a "terrorist unit",( I think the only terror was when those silly sods in that photo nearly shite themselves when the coppers arrived :lol: )

No, the point I was trying to make was that organisations like the Celtic League should be careful who they support, whether it be Basques, Bretons or Irish nationalists.

The American gentleman who was quoted as supporting some of Mr Chappell's adventures( :lol: ) has a very chequered past when it comes to raising funds in America for various Irish causes.

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factotum
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Re: NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE POLICE RAIDS A REGULAR FEAT

Post by factotum » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:40 pm

I admit to having been somewhat disturbed by the report at the start of this thread. At one time Basque language and culture were heavily suppressed and had to be sustained underground. But in recent years afaik things have rather gone the other way. The language is now officially recognised and *positively encouraged*, likewise their schools etc. They also appear to have just about as much autonomy as Madrid could allow without totally losing face. So I have to genuinely ask :
*** Why are the pigs still picking on Basques (shortage of Moslems perhaps, but surely not in Spain)?
*** What do the Basques want that they don't already have?

Well full independence I suppose. But would this really be meaningful inside the EU mega-state?

As a reality check, I used Google Earth Streetview to check out the French-Spanish border in the Basque region, which I understand was once heavily guarded since the Basques could escape from Spain into France and vise versa. What I found is that the border appears to be practically non-existent. There are no barriers, no signs saying "France" or "Spain", signs are bilingual both sides of the border, and the only obvious clue that you've crossed is that in France the Basque is underneath whereas in Spain it's on top. Frankly, given France's well known hostility to all their regional languages and cultures, I was greatly surprised to see any Basque on their road signs at all.

I'm not sure quite how to interpret this. It could indicate a real "Europe of the Peoples", or it could imply simply a massive overbearing superstate with pass laws, paramilitary cops, and soon a microchipped population.

So what is the truth?

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