CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

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kbcl1
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CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

Post by kbcl1 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:12 pm

NEWS FROM THE CELTIC LEAGUE

CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

The General Secretary (GS) of the Celtic League has written to the Equality and Human Rights Commissioner for Wales to express his concern about the ban of the Welsh language at a Welsh hotel earlier this month.

In his letter the GS enquires if the hotel has in fact broken the law and what the EHRC intend to do about the matter. Carreg Mon Hotel is situated in a predominantly Welsh speaking area and many staff members speak the language. Earlier this month Welsh speaking staff were sent a letter stating that they should use English in certain areas of the hotel.

The full text of the letter from the GS can be found below.

"wales@equalityhumanrights.com

28/04/11

Dear Commissioner Ann Beynon OBE

Welsh Language Ban: Carreg Mon Hotel, Llanfairpwllgwyngyll

I would like to express my concern about the alleged ban on the use of the Welsh language by staff at the above hotel.

I would hope that the Equality and Human Rights Commission for Wales intends to investigate this matter fully, which I perceive to be discriminatory and personally offensive as a Welsh person, even though I am not a Welsh speaker. Following the similar discriminatory behaviour of Thomas Cook in 2007, I find it hard to believe that another employer in Wales is trying to impose a ban on the language that members of staff are speaking.

I am aware that the managers of the hotel are concerned about issues surrounding health and safety in the kitchen area, because they cannot understand the Welsh language, but surely that is not the fault of the staff who work at the hotel. If staff at the hotel do not speak Welsh then they should be given opportunities to learn the language, rather than being allowed to restrict the freedom of expression of other staff members. I would therefore like to know if the actions of the manager at the hotel who have tried to enforce the ban are contrary to current legislation and if not, how the Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011 will change matters.

I look forward to hearing about what the position of the Commission is regarding this matter and if any action will be taken.
Yours sincerely

Rhisiart Tal-e-bot
General Secretary
Celtic League

CC Ruth Hogan, General Manager, Carreg Mon Hotel"

See related article on Celtic News at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/celtic_le ... ssage/3645

This article prepared for Celtic News by Rhisiart Tal-e-bot General Secretary Celtic League. For follow-up comment or clarification contact:

Tel: 0044 (0)1209315884
M: 0044(0)7787318666

rhisiart.talebot@gmail.com
gensec@celticleague.net

J B Moffatt (Mr)
Director of Information
Celtic League

29/04/11

The Celtic League has branches in the six Celtic Countries. It works
to promote cooperation between these countries and campaigns on a
broad range of political, cultural and environmental matters. It highlights
human rights abuse, monitors all military activity and focuses on
socio-economic issues.

TEL (UK)01624 877918 MOBILE (UK)07624 491609

Internet site at:

http://celticleague.net
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/celtic_league/

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Marhak
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Re: CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

Post by Marhak » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:25 pm

Freedom of Expression is also a fundamental right which is included in the Human Rights Act.

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Kitto
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Re: CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

Post by Kitto » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:34 pm

Marhak wrote:Freedom of Expression is also a fundamental right which is included in the Human Rights Act.
The employees should abide by company rules, it is for the health and safety of both staff and customers. If you keep trying to pick fights all the time on petty matters, it will devalue the fights that really matter.

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Marhak
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Re: CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

Post by Marhak » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:01 pm

Then let the one person learn and use the majority language of the place he's chosen to work in, not the other way round.

Cormorant
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Re: CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

Post by Cormorant » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:56 pm

How Catholic-centric is the Celtic League?

Trevorpen
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Re: CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

Post by Trevorpen » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:16 pm

Then let the one person learn and use the majority language of the place he's chosen to work in, not the other way round.
That's all very well Mahak, but there is a very sizable proportion in Wales who do not and have no reason to speak Welsh, including Welsh people. So bar a few small rural communities and small villages in North Wales, everyone should speak in English.

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Mark
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Re: CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

Post by Mark » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:23 pm

Oh Trev!

"We are the English. You will be assimilated. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile."

Or so you think...
As long as a hundred of us remain alive, we shall never give in to the domination of the English. We fight not for glory, not for wealth nor honours but only and alone for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life...

Trevorpen
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Re: CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

Post by Trevorpen » Sun May 01, 2011 1:48 pm

Mark, I have spent a lot of time in Wales and bar a few small rural communities in the north, the vast majority use English as a first language. I'm not giving opinions here just stating fact. Are you going to go around and dictate to the majority to give up their right to speak the language of their choice?

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factotum
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Re: CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

Post by factotum » Sun May 01, 2011 2:08 pm

It really just a question of statistics. If half the folk in a town speak Welsh (and 99.9% speak English) then as a first approximation only 1 in conversations will be in Welsh. This is because there is a 50% chance that the first speaker speaks W and a 50% for the second speaker too. The conversation can only be in Welsh if both are fluent, and so 0.5 x 0.5 = 0.25. Of course W speakers may well talk more than average to their W speaking friends, but otoh they will not necessarily know ever W speaker in town, so some conversations will be in E even when both participants are W speaking. So roughly these two factors probably balance out. Anyway regardless of the exact figure, the general model holds. As the proportion of speakers in the local language fall, the number of conversations you expect to hear in that language fall very much more rapidly and exponentially. It one in five speak W, then you would expect no more than one conversation in 25 to be Welsh. If it's one in ten, then only one conversation in a hundred. For half the conversations to be Welsh, the population woould need to be just over 70% Welsh-speaking.

This is a really major problem, because it means that even where there are a fair proportion of Welsh speakers, Welsh would still be heard only infrequently. The pragmatic native would therefore see relatively little use for the language as a practical means of communication (as opposed to a cultural badge), and the pragmatic incomer, who is always addressed in English would have no reason to take an interest, if he was even aware of its presence.

This is why it's pointless putting up Welsh signs in regions that have been anglicised for generations. Better to eradicate all signs of English from the Bro Gymraeg, and create a sold Welsh-speaking core to build out from. This would be the "Belgian Solution" I suppose?

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factotum
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Re: CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

Post by factotum » Sun May 01, 2011 2:09 pm

Damn, no edit. Read "only 1 in 4 conversations ..."

Karesk
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Re: CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

Post by Karesk » Sun May 01, 2011 2:37 pm

I don't think so, Factotum. Modern populations are mobile. Welsh speakers will move into areas that don't have a Welsh speaking majority. If your policy is followed, they will find it hard to maintain their view of themseves as speakers of their own language in their own country, and to pass that on to their children. Non Welsh speakers will move into areas that have a Welsh speaking majority and for the reasons you give, may not learn Welsh. A Spanish speaker, for example, will find it practically more advantageous to learn Englis than Welsh in a place where 99% of the population speak Welsh but 100% speak English. So the area where Welsh is defended under your plan will steadily decrease. And we will never see any Cornish in public, so no-one will believe it is a real language. I even see Welsh signage in trains in Devon sometimes, and I think that's a morale boost for beleaguered Celts.

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Kitto
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Re: CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

Post by Kitto » Sun May 01, 2011 2:55 pm

Karesk wrote:I don't think so, Factotum. Modern populations are mobile. Welsh speakers will move into areas that don't have a Welsh speaking majority. If your policy is followed, they will find it hard to maintain their view of themseves as speakers of their own language in their own country, and to pass that on to their children. Non Welsh speakers will move into areas that have a Welsh speaking majority and for the reasons you give, may not learn Welsh. A Spanish speaker, for example, will find it practically more advantageous to learn Englis than Welsh in a place where 99% of the population speak Welsh but 100% speak English. So the area where Welsh is defended under your plan will steadily decrease. And we will never see any Cornish in public, so no-one will believe it is a real language. I even see Welsh signage in trains in Devon sometimes, and I think that's a morale boost for beleaguered Celts.
Bit of a stupid thing to say, that's to do with the same train company operating trains in both areas. You'll even see trains with Welsh signs in Cornwall - both come under Wales and West or something like that.

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Marhak
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Re: CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

Post by Marhak » Sun May 01, 2011 4:39 pm

Bi-lingual street signs are going up all over Cornwall, which remains predominantly English speaking, and will remain so for several generations to come. Nonetheless, they are there, they're increasing, and even I have got to the point where I don't care how they're spelt as long as they appear. That they are doing so underlines our distinctiveness and slows the undesirable tide of Anglicisation. The same should apply to those areas of Wales which have few Welsh speakers. Too negative, Keith. That's the road to capitulation, where we should all be working together to lay foundations for asserting ourselves.

Karesk
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Re: CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

Post by Karesk » Sun May 01, 2011 4:46 pm

Kitto wrote:
Bit of a stupid thing to say, that's to do with the same train company operating trains in both areas. You'll even see trains with Welsh signs in Cornwall - both come under Wales and West or something like that.

Yes, that's why they are there, or because the trains used to belong to a company that operated in Wales, anyway. Why is it stupid to say I like to see it?

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Kitto
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Re: CYMRU: PROTEST TO EQUALITY COMMISSIONER OVER HOTEL ISSUE

Post by Kitto » Sun May 01, 2011 4:52 pm

Marhak wrote:Bi-lingual street signs are going up all over Cornwall, which remains predominantly English speaking, and will remain so for several generations to come. Nonetheless, they are there, they're increasing, and even I have got to the point where I don't care how they're spelt as long as they appear. That they are doing so underlines our distinctiveness and slows the undesirable tide of Anglicisation. The same should apply to those areas of Wales which have few Welsh speakers. Too negative, Keith. That's the road to capitulation, where we should all be working together to lay foundations for asserting ourselves.
Well, hopefully the population of Cornwall will always be fluent in English. Bilingual education is really good, and not just for the cultural aspects, it has great educational benefits.

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