This is the turning point for Scotland ...

Discussion about what\'s going on outside of Cornwall
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factotum
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This is the turning point for Scotland ...

Post by factotum » Fri May 06, 2011 3:01 pm

... and the first nail in the coffin of the UK

Friday, 6 May 2011 : 14.36: It's official. The SNP have reached 65 seats and will govern Scotland with an overall majority.

Apparently the weird top-up system used (not exactly PR) was specially designed to prevent this ever happening. The problem now will be to keep the process under control and stop it running away with itself. This is more than just party politics though, an entire nation has just regained its self-respect.

How to do election videos :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0K1jyqZ ... dded#at=21

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POP-DjI0 ... r_embedded

How not to do it :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYIgzI6Rl4c

(Sorry, can't find the 'enhanced' version that was on FB, which was at least a bit more humerous).

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factotum
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Re: This is the turning point for Scotland ...

Post by factotum » Fri May 06, 2011 3:32 pm


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Marhak
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Re: This is the turning point for Scotland ...

Post by Marhak » Fri May 06, 2011 7:26 pm

But we do have to educate Salmond that Kernow exists. He left us out of a list of British nations recently, and we can't have that.

Trevorpen
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Re: This is the turning point for Scotland ...

Post by Trevorpen » Fri May 06, 2011 9:46 pm

But we do have to educate Salmond that Kernow exists. He left us out of a list of British nations recently, and we can't have that.
I'm sure Mr Salmond knows Cornwall does exist, he seems a pretty educated individual. Cornwall is not a British nation, it's an English county, so he is exactly right. You however can dream about something that does not exist, but that's your dream - not Mr Salmond's.

Cormorant
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Re: This is the turning point for Scotland ...

Post by Cormorant » Fri May 06, 2011 10:09 pm

Marhak wrote:But we do have to educate Salmond that Kernow exists. He left us out of a list of British nations recently, and we can't have that.
I bet Kernow is at the top of his "Things I have to do" list.

Cormorant
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Re: This is the turning point for Scotland ...

Post by Cormorant » Fri May 06, 2011 10:24 pm

Strange that the West Welsh have not mentioned results in Wales?

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factotum
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Re: This is the turning point for Scotland ...

Post by factotum » Fri May 06, 2011 10:54 pm

I do vaguely understand Scottish politics since I lived there for quite a few years, voted SNP, voted for devolution (in the first rigged referendum) ... I admit I don't get Welsh politics, perhaps Tim would explain. Given that Plaid only seem to have seats in the Welsh speaking areas and have less vote share than the Conservatives (shudder!) I really don't see what's driving Welsh devolution, or for that matter the drive to normalise Welsh throughout all parts of Wales, including some that are only 'Welsh' by administrative accident.

As for Cornwall, since long before I came to live here, I've seen Cornwall as its own nation, but when I think about it this seems largely to have been due to Celtic League / Cornish Nat./activist and Cornish language outlook. The point is these people don't really seem to make much impression outside their own little ghettos, so faced with endless English propaganda, arrogance and ignorance, I wouldn't hold out much hope for Cornish survival, not if I'm to be brutally realistic. Much as _I_'d like it. Point is, neither myself, nor Craig nor any of the others here are in power, so what we think doesn't really count. I found a paper on the history of MK the other day which showed that all the while Plaid and the SNP had been making progress over the decades, MK had really got nowhere. Now we've been refused an assembly (even though a bill was introduced to parliament) and without any district councils, the first rung of the political ladder has been taken away. At least two campaigns for recognition seem to have been abandoned out of lack of interest ...

Really do we deserve to be noticed by serious grown-up politicians?

Look you'll have to forgive my tone, but what's happening in Scotland is exciting, even from this remove. What's happening in Cornwall is ... Well what _is_ happening in Cornwall???

carrek
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Re: This is the turning point for Scotland ...

Post by carrek » Fri May 06, 2011 11:19 pm

I'm going to ignore your post, not because of a pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face, but because a) we all know what you think, so you don't have to repeat it time after time and risk RSI, b) you've already been told many times but you're so wrapped up in your own bubble of pessimism and curmudgeonry that it floats right over your head, and c) your conclusions are ill-thought through and hastily constructed missing out several key points.

1. MK has only been a political party since the 1970s, the SNP and PC have been at it since the 1920s. They have over half a century on us.

2. Wales and Scotland have always been considered nations separate to England. PC and the SNP didn't have to convince the Welsh, the Scottish AND the English that they were nations before they started. We do.

3. In a short space of time MK has grown to become Cornwall's third largest party with 16% of the vote in the seats they ran in. With greater support and manpower they could increase their profile, increasing the ability to field candidates in many more seats.

4. Knowledge of Cornish nationalism outside of Cornwall has grown exponentially over the past decade or two, thanks largely to the Internet. Changing how 60 million people see their country won't happen overnight. But it is happening slowly. I was in Birmingham once and told someone I was from Cornwall, to which his reply was "Ah, the Independent Republic of Cornwall". A bit tongue-in-cheek perhaps but he wouldn't have said it at all if we weren't making progress.

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Mark
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Re: This is the turning point for Scotland ...

Post by Mark » Fri May 06, 2011 11:26 pm

Trevorpen wrote:
But we do have to educate Salmond that Kernow exists. He left us out of a list of British nations recently, and we can't have that.
I'm sure Mr Salmond knows Cornwall does exist, he seems a pretty educated individual. Cornwall is not a British nation, it's an English county, so he is exactly right. You however can dream about something that does not exist, but that's your dream - not Mr Salmond's.
If he was educated, he would know (unlike you Trev) that Cornwall was there long before England even existed.
Not fantasy. Not wishful thinking. Not 'dreams'. FACT.

How about you educate yourself, you silly old man?

BTW, what's the weather like in Cambridgeshire?
As long as a hundred of us remain alive, we shall never give in to the domination of the English. We fight not for glory, not for wealth nor honours but only and alone for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life...

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factotum
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Re: This is the turning point for Scotland ...

Post by factotum » Sat May 07, 2011 2:17 am

Yes. if you say so, MK is 50 years behind W and S. That's the point. The UK could break up within the next decade or so, leaving Cornwall stranded inside England. And an England going through a major identity crisis at that. Any move towards Cornish identity could easily become the target of England's anger and frustration (along with immigrant communities presently identified as 'British' but not 'English'). The recent FB incident, while the tip of the iceberg, does demonstrate the English capacity for outright nastiness. And it's not just bar-room racists, listen to the way educated establishment Englishmen still happily denigrate the Scots and Welsh on TV etc. (Presumably the Irish are now immune, being an independent nation?)
Who has a strategy for raising Cornwall's profile as a nation quickly and effectively? We don't have forever.

Wales was entirely incorporated into England, politically and legally, until fairly recently. From a de jure POV it was more English than ever Cornwall was, since the duchy has remained extraterritorial.

According to this link

http://www.liberalhistory.org.uk/upload ... _duchy.pdf

MK have never come within a mile of 16% of the vote? What planet are you living on? Anyway, I'd be interested in your reaction to that paper.

carrek
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Re: This is the turning point for Scotland ...

Post by carrek » Sat May 07, 2011 1:01 pm

Even if Scotland does become independent after the referendum (which is unlikely), the UK will still have Wales and Northern Ireland, which aren't going anywhere any time soon.

Cornish identity held on after the two largest threats it faced, the reformation and the loss of the language. An independent England (unlikely as it may be any time soon) wouldn't be any harder.
MK have never come within a mile of 16% of the vote? What planet are you living on? Anyway, I'd be interested in your reaction to that paper.
Read what I wrote again, ffs. IN THE SEATS THEY RAN IN.

I don't think you're in any position to be questioning what planet I'm on. You're the one that keeps peddling the idea of integration with Wales, or that Cornish identity is suddenly about to be wiped from history.

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factotum
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Re: This is the turning point for Scotland ...

Post by factotum » Sat May 07, 2011 3:08 pm

I wonder if there have been any surveys on awareness of Cornish identity, both in Cornwall and in let's say Devon, Bristol and London, and maybe Wales and Scotland for that matter. The results would be very interesting. The point is that in politics it's often what people *believe* that's important, as against what's factually or legally true. Also to get any purchase on public opinion you must start from where people are, not where you think they ought to be. Otherwise all you'll get is blank stares. Salmond knows that the Scots people must be shepherded step by step towards independence. Wales stands a good chance of getting pulled along behind Scotland. NI is a little world of its own, probably on its way to some sort of English/Irish condominium. But once Scotland is gone a whole can of worms will be opened. The union flag will be invalid for a start!

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Re: This is the turning point for Scotland ...

Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Sun May 08, 2011 9:05 pm

This is a must watch for all Cornish campaigners : Diomhair prt1 : http://thecornishrepublican.blogspot.co ... rnish.html

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factotum
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Re: This is the turning point for Scotland ...

Post by factotum » Sun May 08, 2011 9:51 pm

Thanks, I discovered this program just recently and was thinking about posting a link here but got distracted by the election. I'm not sure when the program was broadcast or how recently these revelations under the 30 year rule came to light. Just proves that being paranoid doesn't mean they're not actually out to get you.

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