"a crude colonial power in decline"

Discussion about what\'s going on outside of Cornwall
Cormorant
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by Cormorant » Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:42 pm

Yes, the English are good at that aren't they ? Torturing and killing its own citizens, that is.

i comment on the here and now and our resident hack gives a history lesson.

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kbcl1
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by kbcl1 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:55 pm

Followed by more recent torture by the declining EIS:

http://wsws.org/articles/2007/jun2007/tort-j22.shtml

Shall I continue Cormorant although realise that the English like having the last word, well until they have been kicked out that is ? After all, no sane person really wants them, do they ?

Chris

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P_Trembath
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by P_Trembath » Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:39 pm

kbcl1 wrote:Brutality was the true face of that empire. Far from being a helping hand to the people it ruled, the British Empire held them back and dispensed routine bloodshed. Its demise was a great victory for freedom everywhere. What had seemed all powerful was defeated-that should give us hope against imperialism today.
Whilst I agree with your sentiment on the British Empire, in fact I would say that ALL empires are equally as despicable, I would argue the it's demise was only a "great victory for freedom" some. A large number of those Nations/Territories that were either "handed back", or "won back", often had to endure countless years of similar, or even worse, treatment from their own leaders, some are still suffering under such treatment today.
Of course, it could reasonably be argued that this is down to the empire having, prior to independence, spent years weeding out anyone capable of running the Nations/Territories in a civilised way, out of fear of loosing those Nations/Territories earlier. Thus leaving the way clear for the more despotic leaders to take charge, and those who yearn for the return of empire the chance claim that they were right all along, and the "Natives" are obviously incapable of ruling themselves.

At the end of the day, empire, all empire, is evil.

BUT, that still does not change the fact that the people of the Falkland Islands feel themselves to be British, and wish to remain British (note, I do not believe they see themselves as English, and wish to remain English). It should be up to all those who believe in self determination, in democracy, to support such wishes. By all means, if you feel the need, revel in the diminishing fortunes of an imperial power, but do not forget that there are people on the ground who could well suffer because of it, through no fault of their own.
Everyone, Cornish or otherwise, has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small; no one is too old or too young to do something.

Cormorant
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by Cormorant » Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:41 pm

The fact is that the Falkland Islanders have always seen themselves as British.

Cormorant
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by Cormorant » Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:43 pm

Shall I continue Cormorant although realise that the English like having the last word, well until they have been kicked out that is ? After all, no sane person really wants them, do they ?

On the question of sanity?

I would look closer to home, Chris.

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Marhak
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by Marhak » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:00 pm

"Have always seen themselves as British". Well, there's at least one that doesn't. In any case, they primarily see themselves as Falkland Islanders.

24-7
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by 24-7 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:21 pm

"P_Trembath: That the British government is no longer capable of defending those wishes is lamentable"

I am not too sure what you mean. The Falklands have never been so well defended in peace time as they are now, there is now a high British military presence both on and around the Falklands. The Royal navy, RAF and Army all have permanent people there. The Islands will remain British and will be defended by the UK forces if required.

24-7
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by 24-7 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:18 pm

'Opinion in the Americas has moved'

this was due to 2 things, oil companies such as Desire Petroleum plc who did whip up a stock market frenzy by drilling for oil, however after announcing a failed attempt(04/2010) to find oil and share price halved that was the end of that one. But just the thought of finding oil caused many south American ports to threaten to ban British ships.

The other thing was the Argentina's President Christina Fernandez who had messed up the Country and was looking 4 a headliner to make her look good so threatening to take the Islands back!

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Marhak
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by Marhak » Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:01 am

Is that so, regarding Brazil and Uruguay? As Argentina's immediate neighbours, it rathers sets off warning bells, doesn't it? Unless they're just banning nuclear powered vessels or those carrying nuclear weapons. Regardless of the ownership issue, if Argentina took the islands again, we could not take them back by military force now, as was done in 1982, because of silly decisions by our politicians in London. Argentina is well aware of this.

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kbcl1
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by kbcl1 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:04 am

Well, Chris has sparked off debate and that can only be a good thing. I personally believe that the UK which I hope is in its end times, should face the reality of its future and admit to all that it can no longer afford to defend the remaining Crown Dependencies. Defence is one of the main things which has always been thrown up as a reason for the Union. It would appear not so much of a reason any more.

I wrote an article a few years ago in response to a Daily Telegraph piece wherein the journalist mocked Scottish ambitions as he believed that Scotland could only afford to maintain a four frigate navy, a 10,000 strong army and a small airforce.

This is more than neutral Eire maintains currently - eight offshore patrol vessels, a 10,000 army and a non attack air wing of 27 aircraft.

http://www.military.ie/

With the fast diminishing UK military forces, there is less reason for the UK to stay as one unit. Facing reality, who would ever attack Eire, Scotland, Wales or even Cornwall if we were federalised or independent ? Assuming we kept our business to ourselves that is !

I read this this morning. Is this what the dwindling UK armed forces should really be involved in ?
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/international- ... 59603.html

As a pacifist, I believe all armed forces should be kept for homeland security only and in this 21st Century not be involved in expeditionary actions. They make these islands a target. After all, plenty of Nations mind their own business and get to spend tax money on the things that really matter, education, health, the elderly, pensions and not wasted on weapons of war.

With looming industrial action the likes of which have not been witnessed since 1926, more and more are coming to this conclusion.

Mike Chappell

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