Post SWF apocalypse

A new forum dedicated to Kernewek - the Cornish language, Cornish culture and the history of the Duchy of Cornwall
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Ellery
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Post by Ellery » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:00 pm

Why don't you do it then? :-D

Cawsando
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Post by Cawsando » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:28 pm

I'd certainly buy it. How does the whale get hold of the drug? What affect does it have on him? A lot of Blue whales breed near Mexico, where Mescaline originates, perhaps you could involve some sort of whale orgy, or love triangle.
In my opinon, to get teenagers to read this, this mescaline addicted whale should have access to his own helium zeppelin, so he is able to view the world differently, and have easy access to St Merryn airstrip.



edited by: Cawsando, Apr 19, 2007 - 05:29 PM

Grum
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Post by Grum » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:38 pm


FlammNew said:
"Orvil an Morvil goes Ape on Mescaline" has got to be more interesting... :lol:



Aahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Ellery
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Post by Ellery » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:38 pm

You can use this forum to discuss the language if you like:
http://thisisnotengland.co.uk/forum/index.php
:-)

Morvran
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Post by Morvran » Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:26 am


Pokorny said:
[quote=morvran]Point for discussion. If you're going to write exactly the same sort of stuff in Cornish as you get in English, then why bother? No insult to the creative ability of the Cornish, but we're a small nation and unlikely to turn up many world-class writers, so what's the point in turning out second rate American fiction (or whatever) in Kernewek, given that we can all read English already? :evil:




Isn't the point of the Revival to create a community of people for whom Cornish is the language of choice and who will therefore prefer to read everything, including their second rate fiction in Cornish, not English? [/quote]

Exactly, the key phrase is "create a community". That community will then use the language to identify itself and to communicate with itself in ways that can't be exactly translated into English (or any other language). I can't analyse quite how this happens, but there are references and ways of saying things, and subtle differences of meaning and so on. It doesn't cut you off from the wider world, but it gives you some private shared space where you/we can develop a slightly different outlook.

When I read stuff in Welsh for example I sometimes feel like I'm evesdropping on someone else's family conversation. It's taken for granted that the reader isn't English, knows certain things, holds certain attitudes etc. Some things just don't translate.

The same is true to some extent with Cornish. There is a community of sorts. It's a bit artificial and a bit narrow, but it's there and can be built on. I just wish all these famous experts we're paying for could be advising us on how best to do this.


If Cornish fails to enter the domain of popular (Americanised if you will) 21st century culture, then it risks being confined to the Gorseth and similar occasions.



I'm not really disagreeing, only I think we need to create our own 21st century culture, otherwise what's the point. I don't know if we can do that if we ignore our past, and what literature we've got. There are lots of problems/challenges, but we have to find ways of picking up what there is and taking it forward creatively. I don't think we should dismiss the old texts, or the literature of the revival (even thought some of it is pretty dire), but look for growth points.


Morvran
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Post by Morvran » Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:54 am


FlammNew said:

There's even less point in turning out second rate 400-year-old style fiction.



I wouldn't want to support second rate anything, but then I can't write any kind of fiction so I probably shouldn't criticise those who at least try.


There is no fiction written in any version of Kernewek which appeals to me, "Hwedhlow Euthekter" came closest for its originality. Too much modern Kernewek is safe and homely and won't upset anybody, but I want more gutsy stuff. I want to be reading a range of modern fiction in a variety of genres, not "Hwoer Tamsin" for the rest of my life.



I know how you feel. I think we've been going through a thin patch recently, probably because the same people have been left to do everything for too long, so things have got in a bit of a rut. Where are the modern equivalents of the people who wrote for Eythyn twenty-odd years ago? These days you could do it on the web, if you find it please share the address :-)

How do we extend and broaden the Kernewek community? Problem is, like attracts like. Most people come to Cornish in middle age when they've got the spare time. Some people teach their kids, but how to sustain that knowledge/interest. (Conan, can you help?). If as you say "there is no fiction in ... Kernewek which appeals to [you]", then what led you to learn the language [genuine question]?


"Orvil an Morvil goes Ape on Mescaline" has got to be more interesting... :lol:



Ah you want second rate 40-year-old style fiction :-P

Actually I rather like some of the Mediaeval stuff, I just think it's taught badly, needs a different presentation, maybe "BK -- the graphic novel" (but for God's sake find a *real* illustrator, I'm sick to death of all the *really tacky* drawings in Cornish books :-x ) But then I can't draw either :-(

FlammNew
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Post by FlammNew » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:27 am

Stories in a Medieval setting written in a modern style would be OK, but people don't often read Chaucer for pleasure in English and they won't read similar stuff in Cornish either. I've started writing substantial stories before but have become disillusioned because I didn't want to write too much that would have to be transcribed later if we ever, ever decide on a SWF. This reminds me of the discussion we had on C24 ages ago on what books to translate, but since the Bible was completed the momentum has gone.

I certainly didn't learn the language because I had heard of Cornish-language fiction that I was dying to read - did you?

Grum
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Post by Grum » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:26 am


FlammNew said:


I certainly didn't learn the language because I had heard of Cornish-language fiction that I was dying to read - did you?



Childrens books would be the best start - adults and kids could learn at the same rate then. I can't stand Shakespere and other 'great' works in English - they are past their sell-by date and are heavy going.

The greatest book ever written is 'The Very Hungry Catepillar' and should be the first book translated into the SWF because everyone with kids will get a copy because they want to, simple as.

:-)

FlammNew
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Post by FlammNew » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:52 am

Most parents in Cornwall couldn't read "The Very Hungry Caterpillar" in Cornish, let alone children. :-(

CJenkin
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Post by CJenkin » Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:01 pm

My Cornish reading at the moment is:
An Gannas - good for topical info
An Testament Nowydh - Hard going but sometimes interesting as I've never read it in English but it's amazing how much is familiar.
Brenda - A real novel - unsusual and set in Australia.

All of these I tend to dip into because it still doesn't come naturally yet to me like reading in English.

Grum
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Post by Grum » Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:15 pm


FlammNew said:
Most parents in Cornwall couldn't read "The Very Hungry Caterpillar" in Cornish, let alone children. :-(



That was my cunning plan - it wouldn't be hard to accomplish, what with it being basic repetition and mainly food and the kids would pick it up better and become truly bilingual

:-)

FlammNew
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Post by FlammNew » Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:28 pm

CJ, can you tell me more about the Brenda novel please? I'm getting a bit bored of An Gannas, too much Hwoer Tamsin-type stuff, CornishNews I can read online and Tros an Bys Bras I know through the news. An TN I've read most of in English and I doubt it'd be any more relevant to my life in Cornish.

CJenkin
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Post by CJenkin » Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:32 pm

http://www.seaviewpress.com.au/index.ph ... ductId=722

This is a link about the novel by Cornish-Australian Peter Trevorah - who has published works in English aswell. Has an interesting structure and each chapter is not too long to maintain the interest.
Not great literature but modern and has helped me in understanding and thinking about colloquial usage.

Pokorny
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Post by Pokorny » Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:50 pm


FlammNew said:
Most parents in Cornwall couldn't read "The Very Hungry Caterpillar" in Cornish, let alone children. :-(



Are there any plans to follow the Manx example and set up Cornish medium playgroups? This might help balance the current age-structure of the RC speaking community a bit.

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