Alys in Pow an Anethow in Kernowek - Alices Adventures in Wonderland in Cornish

A new forum dedicated to Kernewek - the Cornish language, Cornish culture and the history of the Duchy of Cornwall
She
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Post by She » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:11 pm


Evertype said:
And now that "system" is gone.



to be honest hun I'm confused now. the SWF isn't kemyn or KS so both systems are gone...but you still use KS. if KS is still around then so is Kemyn. I know logic isn't girls strong point, my brain hurts :)

Morvran
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Post by Morvran » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:27 pm

No, it's not a 'Girl Thing'. They delight in every kind of clever double-talk. It's hard work trying to unravel their logic, and counterproductive. We've done some 'test cases', like Williams' outrageous generalisatons from the Nag eus hy far couplet in the Charter Endorsement, which would be funny if they were done as a joke. Unfortunately, they're not joking, they really believe their own propaganda. Usually you end up with a circular argument, or an appeal to authority -- I'm a Professor and a Celtic Scholar and you lot are just Train-Spotters.

Yep, makes yeh brain hurt. Must try to stop wasting my time here. I'll leave it to your feminine touch, maybe that will throw them?

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Evertype
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Post by Evertype » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:54 pm


she said:
[quote=Evertype]And now that "system" is gone.

to be honest hun I'm confused now. the SWF isn't kemyn or KS so both systems are gone...but you still use KS. if KS is still around then so is Kemyn. I know logic isn't girls strong point, my brain hurts :)[/quote]The KS draft which was put forward for comment before the AHG was KS. The SWF adopted many of its provisions. The new KS takes as its starting point the SWF, correcting identified errors and inconsistencies.

The SWF and KS share the same phonology. That phonology differs from the theoretical one proposed in KK.

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Evertype
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Post by Evertype » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:56 pm

The authority to whom we appeal, Keith, is the traditional corpus.

You're the one who keeps trying to say that we follow a guru. I can only imagine that is because you do so yourself.

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Eddie-C
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Post by Eddie-C » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:22 pm

1.
she said:
I know logic isn't girls strong point, my brain hurts :)


2. Logic isn't Keith 'morvran' Bailey's strong point.
3. Therefore, Keith is a girl.

Alternatively,

1. Keith is a boy,
2. Logic isn't Keith's strong point,
3. Therefore, 'she' is mistaken in claiming exclusive feminine rights to illogicality: at least 1 boy gets a slice of the action.

Isn't logic a wonderful thing!

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Marhak
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Post by Marhak » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:33 pm

Fascinating, Captain.

In response to Conan, every KK user I have heard pronounces KK as they would UC, even Ken. I have never heard anyone pronounce the vowels with the qualities recommended by Ken. Not even Ken.

KS (I think Steve brought this up) isn't a new orthography, apart from the diacritics which simply mark vowels which are not pronounced as you might expect (in all orthographies, we have usya and unyes - but the U is pronounced very differently in each. Normally, in KS and the SWF U represents /y/ but this isn't the case in usya, so KS marks it as different. That's just by way of example. KS spelling, however, you have all seen before. It isn't new. It's all traditional. Just given good order, with helpful guidance given by the few diacritics.







edited by: marhak, Feb 05, 2009 - 04:40 PM

She
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Post by She » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:45 pm

hey no-headaches marhak is back ;-) if I came to a KS class would everyone speak KS the same and by the book?

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Marhak
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Post by Marhak » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:56 pm

LC and traditional MC/TudorC people don't have punch ups. In any case, I tend to use LC pronunciation which is just right for where I'm based.

CJenkin
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Post by CJenkin » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:37 pm


marhak said:
Fascinating, Captain.

In response to Conan, every KK user I have heard pronounces KK as they would UC, even Ken. I have never heard anyone pronounce the vowels with the qualities recommended by Ken. Not even Ken.

KS (I think Steve brought this up) isn't a new orthography, apart from the diacritics which simply mark vowels which are not pronounced as you might expect (in all orthographies, we have usya and unyes - but the U is pronounced very differently in each. Normally, in KS and the SWF U represents /y/ but this isn't the case in usya, so KS marks it as different. That's just by way of example. KS spelling, however, you have all seen before. It isn't new. It's all traditional. Just given good order, with helpful guidance given by the few diacritics.



edited by: marhak, Feb 05, 2009 - 04:40 PM



This is of course your opinion - trouble is I'm not convinced that your opinion is at all accurate. I'm not prepeared to believe anything based on such hearsay.

I would need to be convinced and I am completely unconvinced by this.

You seem to forget that I (and others) began learning Cornish in the period with unified and we all recognise changes and improvements in pronunciation from people who have learnt using KK orthography.

Bardh
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Post by Bardh » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:45 pm

In practice, most Cornish-speakers seem to observe the prescribed pronunciations more according to the formality of the context, while some seem to observe them more anyway. We have hear the beginnings of the dimension of stylistic register. More research is needed. (Well, alright, some research.)

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Marhak
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Post by Marhak » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:48 pm

Tell you what, Conan - why don't you make a recording so that we can hear your geminates and half-length?

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