“Skeul an Tavas” -- Corslyver rag Skeul an Yethow dyllys gans Agan Tavas ha gans Evertype

A new forum dedicated to Kernewek - the Cornish language, Cornish culture and the history of the Duchy of Cornwall
pietercharles
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Post by pietercharles » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:34 pm

marhak said:
What I find most telling is who he favours, and who he doesn't.


Whereas what I find most telling is marhak's blatant use of 'guilt by association' - a cheap and underhand means of casting aspersion. 
But totally fallacious nevertheless. 
He clearly missed his vocation as a pull-the-wool-over-your-eyes politician.  He'd have been about as good at it as the rest of them! 

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Marhak
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Post by Marhak » Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:26 pm

What a very interesting response!  "If the cap fits" springs to mind – he certainly thinks that it does fit.  I made no mention of "Pieter Charles".  Not one.  In any case, just how can one "cast aspersions" upon someone who is anonymous?  Aspersions only affect those who can be identified - like the aspersions he casts upon me.  Either give it up, "Pieter", or identify yourself.  You can't have it both ways.

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Taran
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Post by Taran » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:50 pm

You are an idiot goky.

KK's phonology hypothetically reconstructs the oldest form of middle cornish and so deserves the epithet ancient, not the later forms. And the SWF is very new so cannot be called ancient, the same applies to KS. I thought you were banned anyway you little shit stirring fascist.

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Marhak
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Post by Marhak » Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:39 pm

"Cornish for Beginners" was written by Peter Pool, in Unified Cornish, and published by the Language Board.  As author, the copyright remains with Peter and his beneficiaries.  Peter, who loathed KK as much as I do, would never have given his permission for his book to be translated into KK, nor would Audrey.  So, how come the book is in KK?

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Eddie-C
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Post by Eddie-C » Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:30 pm

'Cornish for Beginners' in KK? If so, then it sounds like someone need suing for breach of copyright. Certainly, everything I've ever heard about the late Peter Pool, or read in his writings, corroborates what Marhak asserts.
Perhaps the whole publishing record of the KKesva needs scrutinising, to make sure that they haven't --inadvertently, perhaps-- broken the law in this regard.
 After all, another late author who despised KK (yet who has many of his works in print in KK) is Myghan Palmer. Surely, the KKesva will have written and witnessed consent from either him or the executors of his estate for what they've done to his creations.


Surely. Yes?

Palores
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Post by Palores » Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:03 pm

marhak asked.  how come "Cornish for Beginners" is in KK?

Oh dear, this question and Eddie-C's post shows just how out of touch they are with mainstream Cornish.
"Cornish for Beginners", in KK and published by the Cornish Language Board, is not PAS Pool's book,
but a quite different book, newer and IMHO better.

pietercharles
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Post by pietercharles » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:25 pm

Eddie-C said:
'Cornish for Beginners' in KK? If so, then it sounds like someone need suing for breach of copyright. Certainly, everything I've ever heard about the late Peter Pool, or read in his writings, corroborates what Marhak asserts.

But you're both barking up the wrong tree!  The original post was not about Peter Pool's book.  Marhak's assertions are true, as far as I know, but it's an irrelevant reply to the post because he's talking about a different book.

Perhaps the whole publishing record of the KKesva needs scrutinising, to make sure that they haven't --inadvertently, perhaps-- broken the law in this regard.

I agree with you Eddie-C.  I see no other way of putting an end to these silly insinuations, frequently posted on C24, one might think, to deepen discord in the Cornish movement.  Let's see an end to them, with a proper scrutiny of the publishing record of the KKesva.

 After all, another late author who despised KK (yet who has many of his works in print in KK) is Myghan Palmer. Surely, the KKesva will have written and witnessed consent from either him or the executors of his estate for what they've done to his creations.


Surely. Yes?

Myghan Palmer (who usually called himself Myghal ) didn't despise KK!  What evidence is there for that?  He just didn't use it.  It's a very reasonable position to take - I, for example, don't use Unified, but I certainly don't despise it. 
You may be thinking about his approach to UCR - after he'd had Rebellyans converted to UCR he said he'd never have anything else converted to it.  But even then, I'm fairly certain he didn't despise UCR.  Just had a bad experience with it and didn't want to use it.

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factotum
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Post by factotum » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:43 pm

Well in fact the Kesva did publish Pool's book too, although all their stocks of UC books were given to Ray Chubb years ago.
The new book is here, or would be if it were in stock :
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cornis.....1902917421
No cover pic, no publisher's blurb, no buyers' reviews telling us that it's the best thing since sliced bread ... Bad Show Chaps, no wonder no one knows about the book. Who are they paying to promote/distribute it?
Kesva's web site is down too, so the link from my site to their booklist is out (and it was last week too, so it's not a temporary glitch). Looks like someone forgot to renew the sub for the web address since I get an 'unknown address' message -- who's getting paid for that?
Not that widely available by the look of things :
http://www.bookfinder.com/sear.....mp;src=dir






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Marhak
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Post by Marhak » Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:06 pm

I'm afraid you are wrong.  Myghal Palmer loathed KK.  But, then, I only knew the guy so what do I know?
So the Cornish Language Board has published two completely different books - with the same title.  Right . . .  Mainstream Cornish?  Has the Kesva actually published something in the SWF then?  Didn't see anything in the MAGA newsletter about it.  On the other hand, Agan Tavas (who, in the gospel according to Keith, don't publish anything) have brand new Language Ladder course books available in SWF/K, SWF/T and KS.

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factotum
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Post by factotum » Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:12 pm

Looking a few older Cornish language books, published by the Kesva, and by others, no one seemed to be very bothered by copyrights in those days. As Jenner himself put it, "there's no money in it", so why should they? There is a distinct lack of copyright declarations in most cases. Were the rights assigned to the publisher, or were they just licensed, if so what were the terms, certainly it's unlikely that authors were paid. I doubt if in most cases there were any formal arrangements.
So if anyone starts getting 'legal' about all this stuff, then really the language will be the loser big-time, and the lawyers will dine out for months at the expense of all of us, while they debate what agreements might be presumed to have held betweens the parties.
Things have of course changed. In the past Cornish books were printed locally and hawked around a handful of local outlets, or sat with their staples rusting in someone's garage. That's all changed for good. You can finalise your pdf on monday and pretty well have the book available world-wide by the following friday. Let this be a wake-up call.




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Marhak
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Post by Marhak » Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:14 pm

In case you hadn't noticed, Keith, Agan Tavas and its associates woke up at the beginning of the year (how many books published this year?)

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