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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:43 am
by pietercharles
marhak said:
I'm afraid you are wrong.  Myghal Palmer loathed KK.  But, then, I only knew the guy so what do I know?

Me too, and I'm afraid you're wrong.  Perhaps he pretended not to loathe KK when he spoke to KK users, and pretended to loathe it when he spoke to users of other systems (what were you using in those days, "marhak"?).
Seems a bit unlike Myghal, though.
What other evidence do we have?  Well, I have to say that most people that loathed an orthography probably wouldn't countenance having their work published in that orthography.  Let's face it, we're not going to see the latest Alys published in KK, are we?
And yet Myghal, a very reasonable man, did allow his work to be published in KK.  Despite loathing it?  I think not.
Of course, some might argue that the Kesva or Kowethas, I know not which, simply took his work without permission, converted it and published it in KK, despite howls of protest and threats of legal action from Myghal and all despisers of KK.
I think it may be obvious to the C24 readership that that would be a ridiculous, barrel-scraping argument, a further attempt at demonisation of those organisations.  We will, nevertheless, probably have to wait for Eddie-C's suggested scrutiny of KKesva publications for hard evidence one way or the other.

marhak also said:
So the Cornish Language Board has published two completely different books - with the same title.  Right . . . 

May seem odd to the newbie.  But anyone who's been keeping abreast of what's been going on will know that the second 'Cornish for Beginners' was given that title because it was part of a well-known series that included 'Irish for Beginners' and 'Welsh for Beginners' in exactly the same format.

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:58 am
by factotum
Well Marghek, I'm sure you're familiar with the saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink".
Micheal has aggressively explained what's wrong with many KK publications, and I have done my best to expain to them why his technical arguments are basically correct, hopefully in a more friendly manner -- I've even demonstrated the right way. The "Cornish for Beginners" book (the recent one) is OK but that's because it was based on an existing design/illustrations by a large publisher, same as "First 1,000 words", (it's not a style I especially like, but that's down to personal taste). Otherwise we're probably in for more of the same, amature looking word-processor generated hit and miss output. A great pity IMO that readers have to choose between decent content, or decent production, but are rarely offered both.

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:31 am
by Marhak
Ah, THAT "…for Beginners" series.  Now I understand (I have the Welsh and Irish for Beginners).  Re: presentation – I think the days of the poorly produced Cornish works are now numbered and Michael has to be given much of the credit for this, as he has set the bar to a new height.  The books we have brought out this year, benefitting from his expertise, are attractive and professional in every way – to look at, to use, to handle.  Even the MAGA newsletter has upped the standard.  All of which is a good thing.  And there's more to come.  A whole lot more.

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:58 pm
by SalaciousCrumb
Since when did anything you have to say matter to anyone but yourself, you poisonous little gnome? Your ignorant and confused observations are as worthless as your own, insignificant existence. What are you rambling about you little turd? Go away, back to the Canadian troll hole you were banished to last time, you repellent little gobblin' boy.
Nyaaaaaa, haaaa, haaa, haaaa, haaaaa!

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:43 pm
by factotum
If you go and take a look at Evertype's web site you'll discover that all the Cornish publication are just cloned from titles he'd already done in English and Irish, Alice, 20,000 Leagues, the kiddies' reading book, which means he already had the design, illustrations, lay-out etc. in place on his Mac and only needed a Cornish version of each text to go to press. And of course the SanT book was just a re-hash of Ray Chubb's work, so little sign of originality really. It will be interesting to see what gets cloned next.
Btw, where can I find details of the latest Kesva publications, I've searched the web in vain. Does anyone have copies of these latest and what do they look like. (The academic study one should be OK because it was set up by a fellow academic who most probably knew his stuff, IIRC)

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:11 pm
by Marhak
First of all, we did not "hire an outsider".  A member of Agan Tavas had services we needed, so we used them and rightly so.  We have a lot of diverse talent in our society.  Secondly, Skeul an Tavas is not a rehash of Ray's work – it is totally new and conforms to the Language Ladder – so that is an unfounded allegation, Keith.  Play fair and honest, even if it does come hard to you.
Secondly, each of the publications attributable to Michael have been individually typeset and designed, so wrong again. He didn't have the illustrations for 20,000 Leagues on his Mac.  He had to obtain them all, then put them on his Mac.  Bloody ridiculous allegation, Keith – why do you do it?
As for the latest publications by the Kesva.  If you hadn't been thrown off it, you'd have known (not that they have published much recently).

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:21 pm
by truru
As far as I am aware, the Kesva and Agan Tavas have both published works in the Cornish language.

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:44 pm
by Marhak
And written 'em, too, would you believe?

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:50 am
by factotum
Spellyans : Your link is at least a year out of date. The links from it to booksellers are both obsolete.
Links to recent Kesva publications anyone, please?

Horseman, please go and look at Evertype's site, list of books published. All of those in Cornish had previously been done in Irish and English. Once the design, layout and illustrations are sorted, "individually typeset" means tweaking the odd line or page-ending here and there, and if his software is up to scratch there'll be very little that isn't taken care of. Although hyphenation will of course be a potential problem with Cornish text.

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:44 am
by Marhak
You specifically mentioned "Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Seas".  As I assisted in certain ways, I know that Michael produced this from scratch, including gathering facsimiles of the illustrations from the original 1870 edition, and also a brand new translation into English.  It's also the full work, not the heavily purged English versions we're used to, some of which omit 25% of Verne's original text (many editings being for political reasons, intriguingly), or cause scientific blunders that Verne didn't commit. I believe that 'Adro dhe'n Bys in Peswar Ugans Dedh", translated by Kaspar Hocking, was a new venture, too, with colour work to the cover being undertaken by another Agan Tavas member (told you we had talent).  There are more new works to come.  Enjoy!

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:07 pm
by truru
spellyans said:
As per Ray Chubb's self congratulation in Spellyans you have at at least 5 people in Agan Tavas, two in Ireland who publish and translate for you, one guy who makes pretty pictures, and someone else I think who stands around telling the world how wonderful they are.

And then there's Goky who has done diddly squat for the language. In fact his purile rantings on here have probably done harm.

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:47 pm
by Marhak
And has a puerile blog telling people how wonderful (-ly inadequate) he is.