Sjheiss a dhysk Kernewek

A new forum dedicated to Kernewek - the Cornish language, Cornish culture and the history of the Duchy of Cornwall
Sean of the Dead
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Re: Sjheiss a dhysk Kernewek

Post by Sean of the Dead » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:13 pm

Thanks guys. I agree with Morvil, the present makes more sense there than the preterite does.
Mar pleg, gwrewgh ewna ow hammwriansow Kernewek.

pietercharles
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Re: Sjheiss a dhysk Kernewek

Post by pietercharles » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:43 am

Or perhaps a little more idiomatic (these days at least?) but not at all helpful for showing how to use negatives with subordinate clauses (dell wonn):

Ny dheu ev omma hedhyw, dell wonn.

CJenkin
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Re: Sjheiss a dhysk Kernewek

Post by CJenkin » Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:08 pm

Isn't sean's example a present continuous form rather than a simple present/future? I know this is hair-splitting stuff but perhaps it will give learners the idea that you can respond in a number of different but equally valid ways.

Sean of the Dead
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Re: Sjheiss a dhysk Kernewek

Post by Sean of the Dead » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:45 pm

What would it be using a present continuous construction then? I'm used to languages where there's no difference between simple present and present continuous, except English of course. :P
Mar pleg, gwrewgh ewna ow hammwriansow Kernewek.

Morvil
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Re: Sjheiss a dhysk Kernewek

Post by Morvil » Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:42 am

I don't think the continuous form would work here particularly well. Using it in this context is a very English idiom. I think the present-future is ideal here.

Morvil
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Re: Sjheiss a dhysk Kernewek

Post by Morvil » Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:24 pm

Sorry, I was a bit brief there... What I meant to say was, when translating English sentences to Cornish we should be sure to translate the meaning, not imitate the English grammatical structure. "I know (that) he will not be coming today." is a very English way of expressing the idea. Cornish My a wor na dheu ev hedhyw. says exactly that. I feel that if we were to say: My a wor na vydh ev ow tos hedhyw. we would actually be saying: "I know that he will not be (in the process of) coming today." But as you said, this is splitting hairs. There are of course other ways of expressing the idea, such as:

My a wor na vynn ev dos hedhyw.
My a wor na wra ev dos hedhyw.

All express the future idea that 'he will not come today'.

In a colloquial context I would say:
Me 'or na vedn e' dos hedhyw.

In a more literary context, I would write:
My a wor na dheu va (or: ev) hedhyw.

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GanO
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Re: Sjheiss a dhysk Kernewek

Post by GanO » Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:24 pm

Morvil is quite right, I feel; perhaps these sample sentences will clarify the issue a little (unless I've got any of them wrong!):

Jowan a dhe prys crowst hedhyu. / Y te Jowan prys crowst hedhyu.
John will come at lunchtime today.
(futurity)

Jowan a dhe prys crowst pup deth oll. / Y te J ...
J. comes at lunch time every day.
(present/future habitual)

J. a vyn dos...
J. will come ...
(futurity/will or intention)

J. a wra dos...
J. will come...
(futurity)

Yma crowst Jowan ow tos y'n ur-ma.
John's lunch is (in the process of) coming right now.
... here it is, being brought in from the kitchen.

Crowst Jowan a vyth ow tos yn pymp mynysen.
J.'s lunch will be coming in 5 minutes.
... wait 5 minutes, and you'll see it being brought in
Gwask an Orlewen
Dyller yn Kernewek Gwyr
- = - = - = - = - = - = - = -
"An Gwyr a'gas delyrf." Jow.8:32
"Dyllen dampnys kyn fen!"

Karesk
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Re: Sjheiss a dhysk Kernewek

Post by Karesk » Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:05 pm

"An bos nos dewi a wra, saw nyns usi ow leski." Traow hag a wra hwarvos a-lemmyn hag yn unn besya an dhiw.

Karesk
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Re: Sjheiss a dhysk Kernewek

Post by Karesk » Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:37 pm

Nyns ov vy sur a-dro dhe "yn pymp mynysen". "Yn", "dhe benn", po pyth?

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GanO
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Re: Sjheiss a dhysk Kernewek

Post by GanO » Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:53 pm

nyns en-vy sur naneyl, dhe leverel an gwyr; mes Williams 2006 a brof:

flat: in 10 seconds flat. yn deg secund poran
Gwask an Orlewen
Dyller yn Kernewek Gwyr
- = - = - = - = - = - = - = -
"An Gwyr a'gas delyrf." Jow.8:32
"Dyllen dampnys kyn fen!"

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