Cornish words for "heal", "save", "salvation" etc.

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factotum
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Cornish words for "heal", "save", "salvation" etc.

Post by factotum » Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:18 pm

I was asked about this today, and initial research seems to show this :

Yagh, yaghhe refer almost exclusively to medical health and healing;

Saw, sawye, sawyyz refer mostly to physical safety (from disaster or misfortune), sometimes to healing, including physical healing through faith, but rarely if ever to spiritual salvation (except occasionally by Tregear, perhaps due to a too literal translation of Bonner);

Selwel, sylwel, selwyz, selwyans, selwyas, selwador refer exclusively to spiritual salvation, but are never (?) used by Tregear and are very rare (2 cases?) in CW;

Savyour is frequent in Tregear, but otherwise only found once in BM.

Opinions and comments please.

Karesk
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Re: Cornish words for "heal", "save", "salvation" etc.

Post by Karesk » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:29 pm

I think I've asked before if anyone can make any sense of this: "Chreest eth an Cooze Innis Degfast gwave wagn Mareea Wheag reguffen pon dro dre rag Deez lempia gooth e deurral askan [in l] leaz Chidna idneth theller. An Hannow an Taaz, ha Maab, ha Sperez sanz. Saaw chee lebn cara keoaz." - a "Charm for a Wrest or Strain" copied by Usticke, who couldn't read the original very well.

Anyway, it looks like it might have the word "Saw" in it, in the sense of "heal".

Morvil
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Re: Cornish words for "heal", "save", "salvation" etc.

Post by Morvil » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:32 pm

Chreest eth an Cooze Innis Degfast gwave wagn Mareea Wheag reguffen pon dro dre rag Deez lempia gooth e deurral askan [in l] leaz Chidna idneth theller. An Hannow an Taaz, ha Maab, ha Sperez sanz. Saaw chee lebn cara keoaz.
Of course I recognise many words, but it is difficult to make head or tails of it. Other sprain incantations are found here if you want to check possibly involved vocabulary:

http://www.jesterbear.com/Wicca/Sprain.html

Crist eth (dh)e'n coos ... enys ... degves ... gwav gans Maria wheg ... wrug govyn pandra ... (an) dre ... rag ... dus lympya goodh y ... dew aral (???) askorn ... lies ... chi na unnweyth (???) thyller (< tyller ?). Yn hanow an Tas ha'n Mab ha'n Spyrys Sans. Saw ty lebmyn (?) (or: leb) cara keoaz (???).

Karesk
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Re: Cornish words for "heal", "save", "salvation" etc.

Post by Karesk » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:19 pm

Thank you for the link and the suggestions. It looks as though maybe Christ goes somewhere (the island wood) with Mary. By analogy with the other charms, something should happen sop she gets injured, but perhaps she just asked what to do for lame people, and the answer has something to do with bones (could Chidna possibly be for "junya"?). I wondered if "keoas" was "koos" meaning "leg", but I can't see how that fits - could it be "kewar" so the last sentence is something like "Saw ty leb a'n car kewar"? But then, I wonder if "Cooze" is "leg" and "Innis" and "idneth" are something to do with "ynnia" - could that have the meaning "strain"? Any thoughts?
It also seems like it maybe should be a rhyme - could it break down as
Chreest eth an Cooze Innis Deg
fast gwave wagn Mareea Wheag
reguffen pon dro dre
rag Deeze lempia gooth e
deurral askan ? leaz Chidna idneth theller
An Hannow etc etc
Saaw chee lebn cara keo[er?]

Not that that makes anything much clearer to me!

Morvil
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Re: Cornish words for "heal", "save", "salvation" etc.

Post by Morvil » Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:12 am

Same here! ;-)

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factotum
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Re: Cornish words for "heal", "save", "salvation" etc.

Post by factotum » Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:24 am

"cara" (near the end) = pekar ha = kepar ha???

Karesk
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Re: Cornish words for "heal", "save", "salvation" etc.

Post by Karesk » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:27 am

I wonder if "deurral" could be something like "Duw re wrello"?

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factotum
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Re: Cornish words for "heal", "save", "salvation" etc.

Post by factotum » Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:52 am

deurral = derevel LC for drehevel ???

Karesk
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Re: Cornish words for "heal", "save", "salvation" etc.

Post by Karesk » Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:16 am

Here's my best attempt so far:

Christ eth yn Coos Ynys Deg
Fast gwav wan(a) Maria Wheg
Rug govyn pan dro dre
Rag dus lempia codhe'
Duw re rollo askorn (salow)
Lies tydner ydne a-dheler'
(An/yn) hanow an Tas, ha Mab, ha Spyrys Sans
Saw ty lebmyn pocara ha kens.

Meaning something like:

Christ went to the Wood of the Fair Island
Hard winter pierced Sweet Mary
Who asked what he will bring home
For suffering lame men.
God give a healthy bone.
Urge back many pains.
In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Heal thee now as before.

I have no idea whether that's anything like possible Late Cornish and little belief that it bears much relation to what was intended but I'd welcome any comments.

I'm doubtful about some of the mutations (deg, dus), and whether Chidna can really be "tydner", among many other problems.

CJenkin
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Re: Cornish words for "heal", "save", "salvation" etc.

Post by CJenkin » Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:11 pm

I had a serious look at this a while back but never got round to posting a reply.
Some points though, the first phrase seems clear enough:
Christ went in a wood,
The second phrase:
ynys teg - I would interpret as 'a pretty retreat', using ynys in its landlocked sense.
The third phrase:
Fast gwav a waynas - maybe something like hard winter won/conquered - then
The fourth phrase
Maria hweg - sweet Mary,
the fifth phrase is more of a problem:
Re govyn - May we ask what it brings?

.... more later

CJenkin
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Re: Cornish words for "heal", "save", "salvation" etc.

Post by CJenkin » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:31 pm

Next I would make it:
"For limping folk,"
The next phrase maybe:
"There falls"
I would make the next bit:
"Two other bones"
Like you I find Chidna a problem but think Dan's got it right with Chi +na
Giving something like:
"instead of many houses
nor once its place."
Then finally:
"In the name of the Father
and son and holy spirit."
The very last bit is difficult and maybe something like:
"Save you wet it and care exactly for it".

Basically find some wood limbs in a deserted location in the wood, splint and keep damp. The bottom line is this Cornish is very corrupted and could easily be interpreted several ways. A big problem with Cornish from its terminal phase. Needless to say fascinating to see something that is not widely known.

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