Enys Tresour dyllys in Kernowek

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carrek
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Re: Enys Tresour dyllys in Kernowek

Post by carrek » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:54 pm

Pecar'a kelgh en troyll,
Pecar'a ros a-jei ros,
Jammes diwedha po dalleth,
War rolbren ow nedha rag nevra.
Del wra an imajys distreylya,
Pecar'a an kelhow a wres che cavos,
En melinyow gwyns dha vres.

Ma'n kescows obma ow mos en kelhow. Nei a'n clowas oll seulabres!

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Marhak
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Re: Enys Tresour dyllys in Kernowek

Post by Marhak » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:18 pm

You've been watching too many TV trailers for future films, Carrek! That is actually very good. Have you tried translating it all?

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factotum
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Re: Enys Tresour dyllys in Kernowek

Post by factotum » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:15 pm

What Tim writes would be true, were there in fact a body of fluent and regular users of the Cornish language. I used to believe there was, but now quite frankly I'm beginning to doubt it. If there were, then M&N's mischief would have come to nothing long since. Also I'm concern that as elsewhere within the wider "Cornish Movement" there is far too much wishful thinking. Saying that Cornwall is 'really' not legally part of England, while English policemen and English judges enforce the Common Law of England in the name of the Queen of England to whom they have sworn an oath, is clearly some sort of weird doublethink. Saying that the language has been revived in the absence of a substantial body of speakers and natural intergenerational transmission, is likewise a nonsense.

I spent part of last night looking around on the internet for examples of Cornish being spoken fluently, as the word would be used for any other language. That is, regardless of whether the speech is spontaneous or prepared, with normal stress and intonation, pauses in the right places etc. I couldn't really find any. I'm not here criticising a little nervousness or the odd grammatical slip, or even different varieties of Revived Cornish, simply a near complete absence of anything that would convince a sceptic that there were people who could speak the language with any sort of ease or fluency.

If you can find any good examples, please post links here and prove potential sceptics wrong.

spelly
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Re: Enys Tresour dyllys in Kernowek

Post by spelly » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:31 pm

I think Rod Lyon still does his Cornish news on the radio.

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Anselm
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Re: Enys Tresour dyllys in Kernowek

Post by Anselm » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:47 pm

Conan - I think there's a difference in kind between Gendall and NJAW. I't certainly true that Gendall's influence has waned drastically over the past twenty or more years. While his decision to withdraw his earlier work from circulation deserves respect for sheer integrity, none of us can help regretting this. Through his poetry, his work as an editor and teacher, and his musical partnership with Brenda Wooton, he created and propagated the integral vision of the personal, the national, and the universal to which many of us responded in the Sixties and the Seventies. His project to recast the Recent Modern language on the basis of Early Modern Cornish might have stood a chance if he'd posited a stable standard and then worked to propagate that. In the event, the chronic internal instability of the enterprise, and the supporters' preference for dissipating their energies i campaigning against the other schools of thought in English, pretty much guaranteed failure. Nevertheless, his contribution is indelible. He made of Cornish something more than an antiquarian pursuit. His vision still informs our sensibilities: a truly great man.
Anselm

'Against a promontory my ship' Rump L. Stiltz-Kinn

'With regret I feel that unless you have a serious change of heart your presence at the Mennaye on Cornish Pirates match days is no longer desired.'
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Mark
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Re: Enys Tresour dyllys in Kernowek

Post by Mark » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:52 pm

factotum, what a big steaming pile!

Instead of looking around the 'net, you need to get out more! I know or have seen people speaking 'with ease or fluency'.

Why should anyone have to prove anything? :roll:

That whole post was drivel...
As long as a hundred of us remain alive, we shall never give in to the domination of the English. We fight not for glory, not for wealth nor honours but only and alone for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life...

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Anselm
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Re: Enys Tresour dyllys in Kernowek

Post by Anselm » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:39 pm

Marhak - no point in trying. They don't write them like that any more.
Anselm

'Against a promontory my ship' Rump L. Stiltz-Kinn

'With regret I feel that unless you have a serious change of heart your presence at the Mennaye on Cornish Pirates match days is no longer desired.'
Rod Coward
CEO
Cornish Pirates

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Evertype
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Re: Enys Tresour dyllys in Kernowek

Post by Evertype » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:01 pm

Isn't it comforting to know that Conan speaks for "the mainstream" and "the vast majority"?
:roll:

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GanO
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Re: Enys Tresour dyllys in Kernowek

Post by GanO » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:09 pm

It would appear that there are only a small total number of people who speak Cornish, perhaps a few hundred at most. Those who use the sort of KK humbuggery favoured by Conan make up about half of that number, with the rest favouring authentic forms of our language.

Doesn't sound very vast to me. More like tiny...very tiny.
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Dyller yn Kernewek Gwyr
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Marhak
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Re: Enys Tresour dyllys in Kernowek

Post by Marhak » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:15 pm

Really, I would like to see a complete Cornish translation of that song - the melody is within my somewhat limited vocal range and, with the newly ordered mellotron due here in March - who knows..... I've already had a go at translating 'Celtic Sonant' (Moody Blues - Keys to the Kingdom).

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Anselm
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Re: Enys Tresour dyllys in Kernowek

Post by Anselm » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:19 pm

An Cherow Glas ... Glas agan bys!
Anselm

'Against a promontory my ship' Rump L. Stiltz-Kinn

'With regret I feel that unless you have a serious change of heart your presence at the Mennaye on Cornish Pirates match days is no longer desired.'
Rod Coward
CEO
Cornish Pirates

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Marhak
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Re: Enys Tresour dyllys in Kernowek

Post by Marhak » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:37 am

Working on a few of Mike Pinder's, too, but they can't be tackled properly until I have the mellotron and get used to it. The instrument's own quirks and foibles requires a technique that differs from other keyboards. The only time I've ever played one was in 1970!

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Anselm
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Re: Enys Tresour dyllys in Kernowek

Post by Anselm » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:40 am

A usi Mike hwath ow pindya?
Anselm

'Against a promontory my ship' Rump L. Stiltz-Kinn

'With regret I feel that unless you have a serious change of heart your presence at the Mennaye on Cornish Pirates match days is no longer desired.'
Rod Coward
CEO
Cornish Pirates

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factotum
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Re: Enys Tresour dyllys in Kernowek

Post by factotum » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:25 am

One would expect those who who put videos and recordings online to at least include *some* of the best speakers around. Apart from promoting the existence of Cornish as a living language, they would be a valuable resource. What I've been able to find so far is rather disappointing. Please direct me to some examples of fluent spoken Cornish that you wouldn't be ashamed to put before an impartial sceptic of the Revival.

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Marhak
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Re: Enys Tresour dyllys in Kernowek

Post by Marhak » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:28 am

Try the clip of Dick Gendall narrating John of Chyannor, whilst sitting on his stairs and without a single sheet of paper in front of him.

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