Croust or Crib?

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Carbilly
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Croust or Crib?

Post by Carbilly » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:45 pm

Here's one that's always intrigued me - whereabouts in Cornwall is the boundary between these two terms. If you could draw an imaginary line coast to coast, which two points would it connect? I know from St.Agnes and all points west it's 'croust', but how far east is the term used?
Incidentally, I once overheard a tour guide (from somewhere in the home counties), during a guided walk near Botallack, exclaim that 'croust' derived from 'crust'! :oops: And yes, I did put him straight! Almost as amusing as the loud cockney at Lamorna telling some tourists that the 'Lamorna wink' was a signal between smugglers to warn of Customs officers!! :lol:

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Mark
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Re: Croust or Crib?

Post by Mark » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:00 pm

Carbilly wrote: I know from St.Agnes and all points west it's 'croust', but how far east is the term used?
Not quite true, mostly in the PZ area it's 'crib' and in the Pendeen/St Just area it's known as 'mossel' from morsel.
As long as a hundred of us remain alive, we shall never give in to the domination of the English. We fight not for glory, not for wealth nor honours but only and alone for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life...

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Marhak
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Re: Croust or Crib?

Post by Marhak » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:07 pm

Like the Anglo tour guide showing a crowd of gullibles in Mousehole the (Eng. langauge only) plaque to Dolly Pentreath as "one of the last speakers of Cornish", with me (on another job) just a few feet away. "Of course" he crowed, "No-one speaks Cornish now". Whereupon I loudly repeated the entire text in Cornish and added: "I think you need to revise that statement, ole pard."

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TGG
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Re: Croust or Crib?

Post by TGG » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:35 pm


Mid Cornwall (Padstow) in 1950s it was "Crib" - Mid morning; "Crowst" - Mid day

TGG
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE! -
They declare their Cornishness with pride
Whilst oblivious to our genocide
That England imposes
With smiles and Red Roses
Where the innocents, so gullibly, reside.


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Evertype
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Re: Croust or Crib?

Post by Evertype » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:43 pm

Carbilly wrote:Incidentally, I once overheard a tour guide (from somewhere in the home counties), during a guided walk near Botallack, exclaim that 'croust' derived from 'crust'! :oops: And yes, I did put him straight!
It does.

Middle English cruste (n.) Also crouste, croste, curst. [OF crouste, croste & L crusta.]

1a. (a) The crust of bread, or a piece of it; ~ and krŏme, crust and crumb; (b) piecrust; (c) ~ rolle, see quot.; (d) rind (of cheese).

1b. Fig. uses: (a) nourishment; the nether ~, ?fostering of sin; (b) yeven a ~, iron.? to give (sb.) something to chew, hit (sb.).

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Marhak
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Re: Croust or Crib?

Post by Marhak » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:21 pm

I'd say that the Middle English is one possible and logical derivation, but I don't think I'd necessarily assume it.
Crib might derive from the Cornish of the same spelling (but UC cryb), "crest, reef, ridge", perhaps referring to the crimped edge of the pasty, or crust of a bread, pie or cake, which was traditionally discarded by miners and other workers through being touched by contaminated hands. If croust does derive from English, then it might well have the same meaning and significance.

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Re: Croust or Crib?

Post by CJenkin » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:48 pm

Marhak wrote:I'd say that the Middle English is one possible and logical derivation, but I don't think I'd necessarily assume it.
Crib might derive from the Cornish of the same spelling (but UC cryb), "crest, reef, ridge", perhaps referring to the crimped edge of the pasty, or crust of a bread, pie or cake, which was traditionally discarded by miners and other workers through being touched by contaminated hands. If croust does derive from English, then it might well have the same meaning and significance.
Like this thought alot, interesting that the more cornish word survived in the east whereas west had an early english word? Also interesting is the modern anglo-cornish pronunciation of krowst. Like some explanantion of that coming from the english.

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Mark
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Re: Croust or Crib?

Post by Mark » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:03 pm

Marhak wrote: traditionally discarded by miners and other workers through being touched by contaminated hands.
This is a long perpetuated myth. I can't believe starving men would throw away good food, when they had bugger all to start with.
Arsenic (which seems to be the main crux of this idea) wouldn't have posed a problem to the miners, as it only becomes an issue once you start processing the ore. Workers on the surface may have had issues but then really only the people working in the calciner and the arsenic labyrinth.
Modern miners ate and drank underground with filthy hands and it was never an issue.
As long as a hundred of us remain alive, we shall never give in to the domination of the English. We fight not for glory, not for wealth nor honours but only and alone for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life...

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Marhak
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Re: Croust or Crib?

Post by Marhak » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:10 pm

"Traditionally" was meant to mean "in tradition", rather than in reality. I've been known to chomp pasties holding them in hands grubby from grooming horses. Doesn't bother me one jot, and has done me no harm. N-E-I-G-H, lad, none at all.

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Mark
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Re: Croust or Crib?

Post by Mark » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:22 pm

Ace! :lol:
As long as a hundred of us remain alive, we shall never give in to the domination of the English. We fight not for glory, not for wealth nor honours but only and alone for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life...

Carbilly
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Re: Croust or Crib?

Post by Carbilly » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:09 pm

Mid Cornwall (Padstow) in 1950s it was "Crib" - Mid morning; "Crowst" - Mid day
That's really interesting TGG, I'd never realised the terms were concurrent.
Not quite true, mostly in the PZ area it's 'crib' and in the Pendeen/St Just area it's known as 'mossel' from morsel.
I worked with a Penryn man who always used the term 'crowst' for mid-morning. Never realised it's 'crib' in Penwith?
I'd say that the Middle English is one possible and logical derivation, but I don't think I'd necessarily assume it.
Agree, Marhak. Hard to imagine a middle English term surviving in a (recently) Celtic speaking area, though I'm sure there's plenty who'd prefer to believe it.
I can't believe starving men would throw away good food, when they had bugger all to start with
Me neither Mark, and I've eaten plenty of pastys with hands lamperd in sh1t - never done me any harm! :?
Interesting stuff, everybody - one of the things this board does best.



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Marhak
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Re: Croust or Crib?

Post by Marhak » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:30 am

Middle English survives in strange places. Ulster-Scots is largely Middle English, and the Scots pronunciation of house (hoose), etc., preserves the ME vowel before the English vowel shift.

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Marhak
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Re: Croust or Crib?

Post by Marhak » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:33 am

(Hey, Mark, did you know that, like the horses, I can also sleep standing up. I got used to the technique at Planning Committee meetings)

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Mark
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Re: Croust or Crib?

Post by Mark » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:24 am

Ah, 'Lampered', there's a word I hear very rarely - I thought me and Father were the only ones who used it these days!
'Cagged' or 'Caggled' being another used by myself very often and meaning the same - coming, I believe, from the Cornish for 'sh*t', of one form or another!
And Marhak, I get the same inclination whenever I hear any of the runners of our 'country' (MPs) spout their cagal! :)
As long as a hundred of us remain alive, we shall never give in to the domination of the English. We fight not for glory, not for wealth nor honours but only and alone for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life...

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Evertype
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Re: Croust or Crib?

Post by Evertype » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:12 pm

Marhak wrote:I'd say that the Middle English is one possible and logical derivation, but I don't think I'd necessarily assume it.
I don't see an alternative.

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