Discussion on the Cornish Language and the history of Kernow

A new forum dedicated to Kernewek - the Cornish language, Cornish culture and the history of the Duchy of Cornwall
Srule
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:21 pm

Post by Srule » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:56 pm

Details arrived today, it speaks for itself, sounds very interesting, shame about the late notification, has anybody else either heard of this or even better planning to go?


Dear all,

I have just become aware of a study day organised by the Victoria County History of Cornwall on the language and history of Cornwall, the programme for which is as follows:

Saturday 29th April, County Hall


10am Registration & coffee

10.30am Dr O J Padel: The Extent of Cornish Speaking in the Later Middle Ages (1100 - 1540)

11.30am Prof. Nicholas Orme: The Four Languages of Medieval Cornwall

12.30pm Lunch. Tea & coffee provided - please bring your own lunch

1.30pm Dr Jo Mattingly: Locating the Late Cornish Language - the Bosons & Keigwins at home

2.30pm Dr Bernard Deacon: Cornish Surnames and the Cornish Language

3.30pm Round table session and discussion. End 4pm


Cost: £10 per head (£5 to VCH Cornwall Trust members) Book and send cheques by April 24th (payable to VCH Cornwall Trust) to: Mrs Coral Pepper, Lansdowne, Pendower Road, Veryan, Truro, Cornwall TR2 5QL Tel: 01872 501074 email: cpepper@globalnet.co.uk


I apologise for the late notice on this, but I only came across the information by accident this morning! The closing date is today, but if you would like to go I suggest phoning.


Jenefer Lowe

Arts Officer

Top Office

Dalvenie House

County Hall

Truro

TR1 3AY



Tel: 01872 323465

Email: jlowe@cornwall.gov.uk

FlammNew
Posts: 1777
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:29 pm

Post by FlammNew » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:01 pm

Who on Earth are Victoria "County" History of Cornwall??

My (cynical) prediction:

10:30 - Cornish wasn't as widespread as people claim
11:30 - English, French, Latin and a bit of Cornish
1:30 - They didn't use Cornish much
2:30 - There's Cornish language in Cornish surnames where they didn't use English
3:30 - How about deciding on a spelling system then? No? Nobody got an opinion? No-one at all? In that case, how about Ke- [gets shouted down].

Srule
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:21 pm

Post by Srule » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:21 pm

yes flamm i understand your justified cynical viewpoint of anglocentric historians but it would still be interesting on two levels, one to see if they have any expansion on their limited horizons and secondly will there be any Cornish based historical interpreters there to challenge them (when i say them i exclude dr deacon)
it is crucial that we understand their arguements before we challenge

Porthia1947
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:13 am

Post by Porthia1947 » Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:20 pm

I suggest people don't encourage or help fill the coffers of an organisation that designates Cornwall an English county even if Bernard Deacon is speaking. I think he'll understand that very well. But in the end everyone has a choice.

Abednego
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:36 pm

Post by Abednego » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:07 pm

Porthia1947 wrote 25 April:


I suggest people don't encourage or help fill the coffers of an organisation that designates Cornwall an English county



Does this mean you don't pay the Cornwall county council part of your council tax?

Xxxxxx
Posts: 1605
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:13 am

Post by Xxxxxx » Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:45 pm

Lovely to see the Cornish display such a positive attitude towards furthering their language...

Porthia1947
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:13 am

Post by Porthia1947 » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:33 pm

I'm sure plenty of twee people will turn up to the study day and anyone that wants to know about Cornish surnames can read Bernard's book the Cornish Family. This is due to be reprinted in a revised paperback edition by Cornwall Editions in 2007. They are also supposed to be publishing his book on Cornish Surnames this year. I'm not sure if it's already on the shelves or not.

Ollie Padel has also published plenty of books on his subject area.

And as for "Does this mean you don't pay the Cornwall county council part of your council tax?" You know the answer and whether I pay it or not is in no bearing on what I personally believe Cornwall to be (ie not an English county) and what the state thinks I ought to believe or accept.

FlammNew
Posts: 1777
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:29 pm

Post by FlammNew » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:49 am


Lovely to see the Cornish display such a positive attitude towards furthering their language...



I'm a pretty fluent kernewek speaker, stroppy, I just know how these events tend to go, and furthering the language probably won't be a major part of the event. I am gagging for a decision on the orthography so we can move forward, the delays and infighting have put me off promoting and writing any more kernewek (and believe me, I want to) until a decision has been made. I emphasise to all the cornish speakers I know that a decision is needed ASAP but it's like trying to herd cats.

What are *you* doing to further the language, strop?

Xxxxxx
Posts: 1605
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:13 am

Post by Xxxxxx » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:41 pm


I'm a pretty fluent kernewek speaker, stroppy, I just know how these events tend to go, and furthering the language probably won't be a major part of the event.

Well as you are fluent, then maybe you should be organising your own event if this sorts are crap?




What are *you* doing to further the language, strop?


Well I try to keep my fluency in Welsh up, and as Cornish "borrows" so much of it I suppose that helps?

FlammNew
Posts: 1777
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:29 pm

Post by FlammNew » Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:44 am


"borrows"



Ahahaha.

Abednego
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:36 pm

Post by Abednego » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:22 am


you know the answer



I don’t.

I agree with the unexceptional argument that one’s paying a tax does not mean one necessarily agrees with everything that the tax money is spent on or even with the levying authority. Every income taxpayer experiences that.

However, that is not what I was responding to. That is a shift from the original bald statement which was:


I suggest people don’t encourage or help fill the coffers of an organisation that designates Cornwall an English county



I am trying to tease out the meaning in everyday life in Cornwall of that. That was the original suggestion and it seems to me that if it is a universal suggestion and not merely about the VCH/IHR conference, it must include Cornwall county-of-England council.

One’s paying county council tax certainly encourages and helps Cornwall county-in-England council financially; it helps to fill its coffers. Rightly, I think. However, if one thinks Cornwall is not a county of England and one believes that bodies that consider it is should not be encouraged or supported, financially or otherwise, there is a difficulty. I am interested in arguments that actually address that.

If the suggestion applies only to the VCH/IHR conference and not to bodies generally, it would be helpful if that was made clear.

Abieuan
Posts: 232
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:27 pm

Post by Abieuan » Fri May 05, 2006 11:05 pm

abednego wrote:

One’s paying county council tax certainly encourages and helps Cornwall county-in-England council financially; it helps to fill its coffers. Rightly, I think. However, if one thinks Cornwall is not a county of England and one believes that bodies that consider it is should not be encouraged or supported, financially or otherwise, there is a difficulty. I am interested in arguments that actually address that.


I do not think that non-payment of the council tax will be effective.
When the Poll Tax was introduced in Scotland before England, i registered myself as one who was eligible to pay it, but refused to pay. As a Council employee i knew they would collect it, but refused to do so voluntarily.
As a result i had to pay an extra charge every week to cover the costs of the Council's lawyers, which meant that, i, a manual worker on 19.5 hrs a week, paid more Poll Tax than my Doctor or dentist did.

I do not regret it, and would do the same again.

User avatar
Coady
Posts: 2734
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 4:12 pm
Location: Hayle

Post by Coady » Fri May 12, 2006 5:15 pm

I think its good and fair that people can study the Cornish Language, and that it should be available to those who want it.. BUT it IS a 'made up' language, borrowing strongly from Welsh and Breton, there must be doubts as to the authenticity of it. This 'language' has no more worth than Esperanto or Klingon, and is less useful than Latin or Greek.

Still I support anyone's right to speak it write it, whatever... as long as it's not IMPOSED on me or anyone else.
We live in interesting times!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests