Discussion on the Cornish Language and the history of Kernow

A new forum dedicated to Kernewek - the Cornish language, Cornish culture and the history of the Duchy of Cornwall
Fulub-le-Breton
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Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Fri May 12, 2006 5:37 pm


there must be doubts as to the authenticity of it



Every language borrows word from other languages!

The French language has the French Council that creats new words for the language to avoid the use of English, but funnily enough they are not critcised for this, but for some reason the Cornish language is, why?

No one is imposing the language on you and if you are not interested by it then ignore it.

However there are at least thirty thousand people in Cornwall of the Cornish nation who have a right of access to their language, so what interest me more is why you feel so strongly that you need to attack the language.

Angofbew
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Post by Angofbew » Sun May 14, 2006 7:07 pm

[quote="Coady"]I think its good and fair that people can study the Cornish Language, and that it should be available to those who want it.. BUT it IS a i just cannot believe the last posting from coady, has he no knowledge at all about our language. i must ask him, when was this adhoc language made up ? was it in the 1950's or what, if so did all these cornish placenames and surnames take effect immediately it did? coady get a life yeah, that argument went out 20 years ago and has been proved a load of rubbish. seeing as you mention both welsh and breton maybe you should realise that all three languages come from the same source, british, ok. they have been seperated by politcal means and have developed along different paths. now for your information cornish did die out, not because the cornish rejected it but because the english put so much pressure on it, so for example if you spoke cornish you could not get a good job. it has been revived and i know all you english butt kissers might not like that but it's happened. the language will not be imposed, we are not english ok, but i think it should be an opt out iption in schools as opposed to an opt in, also i believe the english should pay for it and not us cornish. kernek bys vyken.

Xxxxxx
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Post by Xxxxxx » Mon May 15, 2006 1:03 am


BUT it IS a i just cannot believe the last posting from coady, has he no knowledge at all about our language. i must ask him, when was this adhoc language made up ? was it in the 1950's or what, if so did all these cornish placenames and surnames take effect immediately it did?



Here you go;


Cornish is certainly the weakest of the Brythonic languages - by the 16th century English had become the main language of literature of Cornwall and even Latin ceased to be used. By the 18th Century few people spoke Cornish and by the end of the century the language was not spoken by anyone.

Having become extinct, there followed at the start of the 19th Century a 'revival' whereby the language was reinvented by academics and other members of society - and the language was put together little by little, drawing heavily from the other Brythonic languages - Welsh and Breton.




that argument went out 20 years ago and has been proved a load of rubbish. seeing as you mention both welsh and breton maybe you should realise that all three languages come from the same source, british, ok. they have been seperated by politcal means and have developed along different paths.

I'm afraid this is not right.



now for your information cornish did die out, not because the cornish rejected it but because the english put so much pressure on it, so for example if you spoke cornish you could not get a good job.

As Ian says, this is not the truth.



it has been revived and i know all you english butt kissers might not like that but it's happened. the language will not be imposed, we are not english ok, but i think it should be an opt out iption in schools as opposed to an opt in, also i believe the english should pay for it and not us cornish. kernek bys vyken.


Bugger, I didn't notice that "also i believe the english should pay for it and not us cornish" until the end. It's a good p!ss take, well done angofbew.

CJenkin
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Post by CJenkin » Mon May 15, 2006 11:35 am

Stroppygob should know that the state put enormous pressure on the welsh language to the extent that it used to be spoken by nearly everyone in Wales and now it is only spoken by 20%. States kill languages, people don't.

Angofbew
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Post by Angofbew » Mon May 15, 2006 1:01 pm

ok a little bit of truth for you people out there who think england is not such a bad country. when the reformation took place, armed soldiers were placed in cornish churches to make sure the people did not say things like the lords prayer in cornish, they were placed there to ensure english was spoken, now thats an historical fact. it's also a fact that a language will only exist if there is an economical reason for it to, as i said people could not get a decent job if they spoke cornish, which is why the last speakers were miners and fishermen, basically the lowest on the work ladder. it was always english policy to make everyone in the empire english speaking. recorded historical fact, not an english style history. i think ian should open his eyes a little wider, although what he says i basically agree with, but his ideas on how cornish died out are blinkered. in wales for example, in the schools if any child was heard to speak welsh they were given a plackard to wear bearing the letters WN for welsh not, and the child who wore this at the end of the day was punished, and that is quite recent history. in brittany aftre ww11 the breton language activists were murdered as german sympathisors as an excuse to put down thier language. it's quite easy to take an AL Rowse attitude to history that is basically untrue in it's context, and very anglo biased, but it is not the truth of what happened. when studying history from the english perspective you have to read between the lines.
stroppy what is not true in this passage ?

Quote:
that argument went out 20 years ago and has been proved a load of rubbish. seeing as you mention both welsh and breton maybe you should realise that all three languages come from the same source, british, ok. they have been seperated by politcal means and have developed along different paths.

i would like to know what you think is not true in this passage. and what you think is true. i am sure your views would make good comedy.

i see you also posted a quote from i think bernard deacon, ummmm, reinvented. that implies it was an invention in the first place, which is was not. so here if it is bernard then he is totally wrong. the revival was based on the middle cornish period, and it was adapted, not reinvented. the vast majority of the grammer and words used are authentic, where there were gaps the revivalists of the day looked to welsh. now there is nothing wrong with that, but i personally would look to both welsh and breton together to get the answers. if for example a word exisits in both welsh and breton, then it would naturally be in cornish too. of course bernard who is a supporter of late cornish will be biased against any other form, but many others support the middle cornish line as not being so corrupted by english.
i do not agree at all with ian when he says the english didn't care about the language. all the pointers show that they took and still take an active stance against anything that is not english based. even today it is done, by the media calling activists, weirdo's or fanatics, this is done to undermine anything that is not for the good of england. so basically if you are gullible enough not to see through their bulls*** i feel sorry for you.

Pfishwick
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Post by Pfishwick » Tue May 16, 2006 1:42 am


i do not agree at all with ian when he says the english didn't care about the language. all the pointers show that they took and still take an active stance against anything that is not english based. even today it is done, by the media calling activists, weirdo's or fanatics, this is done to undermine anything that is not for the good of england.



If you believe that, you'd believe anything. "An active stance against anything that is not English based"? Ye Gods! That's such drivel it's untrue. What planet do you live on? :?: :?: :?: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Meur ras,

Patrick

Angofbew
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Post by Angofbew » Tue May 16, 2006 7:03 am

well patrick i'm glad to see another osterich in the ranks. during englands imperialist era iwas a matter of policy to make everwhere in the empire english speaking, historical fact. and if you do not believe that england today is still anything but pro english just look at the english attitude when they go abroad. if they were not then we would have cornish meadium schools in areas where they were enough parents who wanted that, do we? i have even heard that where there is a desire for welsh speaking schools they just say there is not the money, total crap. all they need to do is change the medium, it doesn't cost any more and the kids have to be educated anyhow. so if you want to see modern england through rose tinted glasss, fine, but there are people who can see through the charade.

Pfishwick
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Post by Pfishwick » Tue May 16, 2006 10:21 pm


during englands imperialist era iwas a matter of policy to make everwhere in the empire english speaking, historical fact.



OK, the English ruling class and their Scottish, Welsh and Cornish fellow-travellers; and anyway, the British Empire, thankfully, is no more.




and if you do not believe that england today is still anything but pro english just look at the english attitude when they go abroad.



Cheer up! OK, some English and other Anglophone Brits go to the Costas and other Anglicised tourist areas but the success of Lonely Planet and Rough Guides speaks for itself. Check out the extensive phrase book, dictionary and DIY language courses in any UK bookshop.


i have even heard that where there is a desire for welsh speaking schools they just say there is not the money, total crap.



Over to the Welsh Assembly for that;


if you want to see modern england through rose tinted glasss




I don't, but I don't want to see it through dark-shaded glass either.

As regards the Cornish Language, I hope the "yeth an weryn" sessions are doing well, including yesterday's at the City Inn in Truro starting 8 Pm as every Monday. Fulup's footnote (Pinta korev marpleg) is (I believe) the
appropriate request at the bar.

Nos da,

Patrick

Xxxxxx
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Post by Xxxxxx » Wed May 17, 2006 12:57 am


stroppy what is not true in this passage ?

Your lack of capitalisation?

How about you try giving links, quotes, and evidence to support your assertions?

Just typing out a load of your "beliefs" then expecting everyone else to go out to find the information is very rude, and results in people ignoring you.

Also, your use of English lets you down badly, for example;
in brittany aftre ww11 the breton language activists were murdered as german sympathisors as an excuse to put down thier language. it's quite easy to take an AL Rowse attitude to history that is basically untrue in it's context, and very anglo biased, but it is not the truth of what happened. when studying history from the english perspective you have to read between the lines.

reads as just "blaaarghhh" to me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm far from perfect, and often misspell words (lecturor?), but your paragraphs are too dense, uncapitalised, and so off putting that I ignore them. (I only responded here as I saw my name mentioned.)

Fulub-le-Breton
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Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Wed May 17, 2006 6:17 pm


Don't get me wrong, I'm far from perfect, and often misspell words (lecturor?),



Oh dear of dear oh dear!

Angofbew
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Post by Angofbew » Fri May 19, 2006 6:56 am

Stroppy. You still did not answer my question. Where in this quote am i wrong??
Quote:
that argument went out 20 years ago and has been proved a load of rubbish. seeing as you mention both welsh and breton maybe you should realise that all three languages come from the same source, british, ok. they have been seperated by politcal means and have developed along different paths.
I would appreciate an answer.

Xxxxxx
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Post by Xxxxxx » Fri May 19, 2006 9:14 am


Where in this quote am i wrong??



Which quote? You haven't quoted anyone, just given a long winded diatribe on your own beliefs.

Angofbew
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Post by Angofbew » Fri May 19, 2006 7:12 pm

Likewise, you are a bit of a self important blinkered type, aren't you?
Yet when you cannot answer a point you just ignore it, well i can ignore the likes of you. You, thankfully are totally irrelevent.

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