What does Cornish self-determination mean to you?

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Fulub-le-Breton
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What does Cornish self-determination mean to you?

Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:08 pm

What does Cornish self-determination mean to you? What does Cornish political autonomy mean if culturally and economically we are dependent on others? If we had our own parliament but all our industries were owned and run by companies from outside the Duchy what good would it be? If we had an assembly but our workers remained powerless and exploited what would we have gained? If regained control of the Duchy but our environment continued to be exploited by external powers concerned only by profit what would be better? Is political independence possible without energetic independence?

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factotum
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Re: What does Cornish self-determination mean to you?

Post by factotum » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:46 am

Is 'energetic independence' possible without political control over local natural and human resources. The question is on whose terms and for whose benefit will resources be used.

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Stephen Richardson
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Re: What does Cornish self-determination mean to you?

Post by Stephen Richardson » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:06 am

Does any state have ultimate control over their economy? Global capitalism means that it is the big corporations that control things just as much as government. All countries look to foreign corporations 'investing' in their economy and 'ceating jobs'. How would an autonomous Cornwall have any less control than the UK?
When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.

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factotum
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Re: What does Cornish self-determination mean to you?

Post by factotum » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:52 pm

Well you could begin by looking at how the Scotland takes a completely different approach to Westminster. Fishing for instance. Scotland's fishing grounds were bargined away in exchange for benefits from the EU for England, probably the SE at that. From an English perspective they were marginal, to Scotland they were vital. I imagine much the same applies in Cornwall. Westminster hands out benefits to their cronies rather than reinvesting in the community, infrastructure etc. Especially anything beyond London and the SE. Need I go on ...

Fulub-le-Breton
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Re: What does Cornish self-determination mean to you?

Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:19 pm

How about a blog post from an MKer then explaining what self-determination is all about.

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TGG
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Re: What does Cornish self-determination mean to you?

Post by TGG » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:26 pm


Surely any concept of self-determination is about preserving and developing self-worth as a truly conscious Cornish Community and the pride in achievement, confidence and consolidation that that brings to the Cornish Commonwealth at home and abroad.

There is, of course, still an incredible hurdle to overcome in seriously addressing what the problems are, why they exist and how they may be overcome.

TGGFor The (Real)Reason Why!
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE! -
They declare their Cornishness with pride
Whilst oblivious to our genocide
That England imposes
With smiles and Red Roses
Where the innocents, so gullibly, reside.


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factotum
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Re: What does Cornish self-determination mean to you?

Post by factotum » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:38 pm

I agree TGG, but it's all a bit "chicken and egg". It's very hard to be proud and self-confident in your achievements when the fruits of those achievements are constantly being drained away under the status quo.

If it's not too OT, this may be of interest :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjPVAb3sOlM

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TGG
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Re: What does Cornish self-determination mean to you?

Post by TGG » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:51 pm


I could not agree more. That is why the Status Quo has to go! I assumed that that was implicit in the topic heading. Not only is it externally imposed and based on lies and deception, it is the root cause of the Cornish Genocide that no one wishes to acknowledge or talk about. It is inexorably debilitating, or, as Henry David Thoreau might have put it "the luxury which enervates and destroys nations".

Thanks for the link, which I shall give time to over the next day or so. Alex Salmond is an excellent speaker, which is all I have listened to so far.

TGGFor The (Real)Reason Why!
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE! -
They declare their Cornishness with pride
Whilst oblivious to our genocide
That England imposes
With smiles and Red Roses
Where the innocents, so gullibly, reside.


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factotum
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Re: What does Cornish self-determination mean to you?

Post by factotum » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:47 am

What is happening in Cornwall is no different to what is happening over large parts of the UK, which essentially are being parasitised by London. It is a consequence of unchecked capitalism combined with over-centralisation. Cornwall perhaps feels it more than some other areas because it still has the remnants of a separate culture and special institutions, and in any case these tend to be reinvented due to Cornwall's special geography. That said, there is probably no secret master plan involved, they are not going out of their way to 'get us'. Wales has a stronger identity and has been building and strengthening it's own special institutions, both official and unofficial, for decades now, and these provide some defences, and a basis to build upon. Wales therefore has a chance to escape ... maybe. Cornwall seemed to be beginning to build some of the necessary structures, but as you've explained, the process has stalled. I wonder if there's still time? There is very little political support for anything but the status quo. And honestly TGG, throwing emotive words like 'genocide' around does not help the cause. People just think you're a loony, a crazy extremist. There have been too many fly-by-night groups, funds, projects etc. that go nowhere, people are understandably sceptical. Somehow, someone needs to start from where people are, probably by addressing their most obvious needs, and build a political base from there. A local economy wouldn't be a bad start. But no one seems the least bit interested and they'll need to base their WMD's down here any year now, they see us as a soft touch and alas they're most probably right.

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TGG
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Re: What does Cornish self-determination mean to you?

Post by TGG » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:50 pm


That is weird!! I could have sworn that I posted this response earlier today. :o

by factotum » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:47 am

What is happening in Cornwall is no different to what is happening over large parts of the UK, which essentially are being parasitised by London.
That may well be a truism today, but it has not always been the case and the fact that you refer to it in the way that you do, namely, “is no different to” ignores the changed status of Cornwall that you seem only to imply in later comment. This is the part where I make an, allegedly, ‘emotive’(sic) and impassioned reference to the fact that Cornish Genocide has been institutionalised.
It is a consequence of unchecked capitalism combined with over-centralisation.
In essence that is another truism, but which ignores the constitutional chicanery that has taken place and the intrinsic evils of Imperialism.
Cornwall perhaps feels it more than some other areas because it still has the remnants of a separate culture and special institutions, and in any case these tend to be reinvented due to Cornwall's special geography.

Some very interesting and 'loaded' references being made, but It is worth asking you to clarify what it is that you actually mean by such an overtly generalised qualification.
That said, there is probably no secret master plan involved, they are not going out of their way to 'get us'.

An interesting injection of the word ‘probably’, which suggests that more consideration probably needs to be given to my first, and second, comment.
Wales has a stronger identity and has been building and strengthening it's own special institutions, both official and unofficial, for decades now, and these provide some defences, and a basis to build upon. Wales therefore has a chance to escape ... maybe.

An interesting comparison, which makes me wonder why you felt the need to have made it? What, in fact, has Wales a chance to escape from?
Cornwall seemed to be beginning to build some of the necessary structures, but as you've explained, the process has stalled. I wonder if there's still time? There is very little political support for anything but the status quo.

And…. back to Cornwal? I cannot believe that you are making some oblique comparison here. :)
And honestly TGG, throwing emotive words like 'genocide' around does not help the cause. People just think you're a loony, a crazy extremist.

‘Genocide’, as I have said elsewhere is not an emotive term it is a matter for a sincere intelellectual, sociological and (should also be) academical, debate and acknowledgement of a process, which you continually seek to euphemise, without actually considering the finer points of genocide as a process. Above you say “parasitised” (whatever that means?). Let us put it into its true historic, and hegemonic, context and say, “Anglification”!
There have been too many fly-by-night groups, funds, projects etc. that go nowhere, people are understandably sceptical.
Any debate should stand on its own merit, irrespective of what may be perceived to have gone before. Let the debate be a sincere and honest one with everything on the table.
Somehow, someone needs to start from where people are, probably by addressing their most obvious needs, and build a political base from there. A local economy wouldn't be a bad start. But no one seems the least bit interested and they'll need to base their WMD's down here any year now, they see us as a soft touch and alas they're most probably right.
Like so many others, you simply suggest doing what politicians are, presumably, already doing (standing still??) and which has got us to were we are now, namely, the ‘status quo’. What needs to be done is something that relates specifically to Cornwall as a territory and people. Any suggestions?

As we are suffering the same potential fate of ‘parasitisation’, and are ‘all in this together’, what is wrong with having what, according to you, must corporately be our WMDs here?

TGGFor The (Real)Reason Why![/size]
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE! -
They declare their Cornishness with pride
Whilst oblivious to our genocide
That England imposes
With smiles and Red Roses
Where the innocents, so gullibly, reside.


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TGG
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Re: What does Cornish self-determination mean to you?

Post by TGG » Sun May 05, 2013 12:09 pm


Since there has been no response to my previous posting, I thought that perhaps a reminder may be necessary, so rather than just 'bump' the thread, I felt it might be more apposite to dwell a bit more on "paratisation" in order to... prime the pump.

This link Here points a past thread, which carries a couple of very appropriate quotes, which whilst not 'definitions' are a very astute 'observation' (basically repeated in various guises throughout history) that puts "parasitised" into its true context as stated in the previous post and points to the fact that its application has different, and insidious, consequences for different peoples'

TGGFor The (Real)Reason Why!
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE! -
They declare their Cornishness with pride
Whilst oblivious to our genocide
That England imposes
With smiles and Red Roses
Where the innocents, so gullibly, reside.


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