Cornish Devolution Now

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Cormorant
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Re: Cornish Devolution Now

Post by Cormorant » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:43 pm

It is illegal to die in the Houses of Parliament

It is an act of treason to place a postage stamp bearing the British monarch upside-down.

In Liverpool, it is illegal for a woman to be topless except as a clerk in a tropical fish store.

Mince pies cannot be eaten on Christmas Day

In Scotland, if someone knocks on your door and requires the use of your toilet, you must let them enter

A pregnant woman can legally relieve herself anywhere she wants, including in a policeman’s helmet

The head of any dead whale found on the British coast automatically becomes the property of the king, and the tail of the queen

It is illegal to avoid telling the tax man anything you do not want him to know, but legal not to tell him information you do not mind him knowing

It is illegal to enter the Houses of Parliament in a suit of armour

In the city of York it is legal to murder a Scotsman within the ancient city walls, but only if he is carrying a bow and arrow


More laws that were never revoked.

carrek
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Re: Cornish Devolution Now

Post by carrek » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:56 pm

GrahamHart wrote:1. Good law is not sentiment carrek.
That's the point, it's not 'good law', any more than the ability to shoot bow-and-arrow wielding Scots within York's city walls is 'good law'. That law has been superseded by the laws against murder. The status of "Duchy" has been superseded by the Local Government Act 1888. The Stannary Parliament hasn't vetoed it. And it won't because it doesn't exist.
GrahamHart wrote:2. That we are a Duchy, a Crown dependency and not as speaker after speaker said; "A county".
I said which laws in particular. You can't just go to parliament screaming 'we're a nation', you need a watertight legal case. Do you have one? Which particular laws? And exactly how would you go about making this case?
GrahamHart wrote:3. http://trelawney-alliance.org/
My point was that if I, as a follower of all things to do with Cornish nationalism and politics, don't have a clue who they are or what they want, then how do you expect anyone else in Cornwall to know? If they're "failing" then it's because they aren't getting their message across and they're invisible.
GrahamHart wrote:4. Now you're just being plain silly.
Not really, it would indeed take bravery for someone in an influential political position to make the Duchy case but all that bravado is irrelevant if they are ignored. And if their credibility is destroyed then they won't be as useful to the wider cause.

Palores
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Re: Cornish Devolution Now

Post by Palores » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:16 pm

unlike France and the US which came about due to revolution.
The USA, yes; but France had been around for centuries before 1789.

carrek
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Re: Cornish Devolution Now

Post by carrek » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:31 pm

Palores wrote:
unlike France and the US which came about due to revolution.
The USA, yes; but France had been around for centuries before 1789.
France's current constitution was created in 1958, after the collapse of the fourth republic. There is a tradition in France of sweeping one political system aside in favour of another, that was born with the revolution. The UK doesn't have that tradition, hence no revolution, hence no constitution.

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Marhak
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Re: Cornish Devolution Now

Post by Marhak » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:55 pm

It ought to be illegal for Geordie pests to infest a Cornish forum.

Fulub-le-Breton
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Re: Cornish Devolution Now

Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:57 pm

You might all like to read these two blog posts ( a debate between two writer ) on the subject of nations and states. Cornish comments would of course be welcome.

Nation-state or country-state: how do we discuss belonging in an age of fluidity? http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom ... ge-of-flui

Nation-state or country-state: a response to Gagnon from the UK: http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom ... on-from-uk

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Marhak
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Re: Cornish Devolution Now

Post by Marhak » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:07 pm

The Local Govt. Act 1888 did not apply to Cornwall, which was added as an afterthought in 1889, and it certainly did not supersede the status of Duchy which it still holds. The dubious legality of the 1889 action was highlighted by the Royal Commission on the Constitution 1973 (Kilbrandon Report), which recommended that "Duchy" be used to describe the status of Cornwall, rather than "county". Who are we to argue with them?

I find it hard to understand this desire to downgrade Cornwall's status and to relegate it to the "common-or-garden" when, at law, it is a Crown Dependancy similar to the Isle of Man and the Channel Isles. Unlike those examples, and uniquely, Cornwall has a separate Head of State. Shaggy is wrong about the bits of whale - if discovered in Cornwall, the parts would be offered to the Duke, as he is Head of State here, not the Queen. Same with sturgeons caught in Cornish waters. Same with Rights of Wreck. All this has been detailed before, not that Shaglet reads them.

tex
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Re: Cornish Devolution Now

Post by tex » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:26 pm

Unless there are enough funds available to fight each case in a court of law, things will remain as they are. You can have enough "balls" all you like, but without the £.s.d you only get what is given, not what is lawfully yours.

Cormorant
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Re: Cornish Devolution Now

Post by Cormorant » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:05 pm

Marhak wrote:The Local Govt. Act 1888 did not apply to Cornwall, which was added as an afterthought in 1889, and it certainly did not supersede the status of Duchy which it still holds. The dubious legality of the 1889 action was highlighted by the Royal Commission on the Constitution 1973 (Kilbrandon Report), which recommended that "Duchy" be used to describe the status of Cornwall, rather than "county". Who are we to argue with them?

I find it hard to understand this desire to downgrade Cornwall's status and to relegate it to the "common-or-garden" when, at law, it is a Crown Dependancy similar to the Isle of Man and the Channel Isles. Unlike those examples, and uniquely, Cornwall has a separate Head of State. Shaggy is wrong about the bits of whale - if discovered in Cornwall, the parts would be offered to the Duke, as he is Head of State here, not the Queen. Same with sturgeons caught in Cornish waters. Same with Rights of Wreck. All this has been detailed before, not that Shaglet reads them.

The 1888 Local Government Act, which applied to England and Wales and inter alia established county councils, received royal assent in August 1888 and, in accordance with section 109, came into force everywhere on 1 April 1889 (except London where it came into force on 21 March 1889): such a delay is normal in parliamentary Acts and there was no special Cornish delay. Section 103 provided that the first elections to the new county councils should be in January 1889 and not earlier than the 14th. The election to the new Cornwall county council was on 24 January 1889, the same day as the first elections to the new Durham and Norfolk county councils for example; sixty six councillors were elected in Cornwall and at a subsequent meeting of the council in February twenty two aldermen were elected by the councillors. Until April when the Act came into force the council was a “provisional council” which then moved seamlessly into the legally constituted county council.

The first meeting in February 1889 was at Bodmin, as was the second meeting; the third and all subsequent meetings of the council were at Truro.

Section 49 of the 1888 Act provided for separate administrative arrangements for the Isles of Scilly, independent of Cornwall.

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Marhak
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Re: Cornish Devolution Now

Post by Marhak » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:10 pm

Sadly, there's the rub, and might explain why successive governments have left Cornwall at the bottom of the earnings pile, and with one of lowest GDPs in the whole of Europe, for decades. That isn't accidental. Nor was the operation of Objective One, given to Cornwall, but which benefitted very few Cornish applicants. Nonetheless, there are several million people of Cornish descent across the world and, just maybe, there's one with a pile of money who might be willing to lend aid to his motherland. We would also need a legal team who would work for Cornwall's interests only, and not be quietly operating the opponent's agenda. Where would we find that?

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GrahamHart
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Re: Cornish Devolution Now

Post by GrahamHart » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:26 pm

carrek wrote:
GrahamHart wrote:1. Good law is not sentiment carrek.
That's the point, it's not 'good law'.
Without getting into pantomime mode carrek, it is good law.

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TeamKernow
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Re: Cornish Devolution Now

Post by TeamKernow » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:40 pm

Cormorant wrote:The 1888 Local Government Act, which applied to ...Section 49 of the 1888 Act provided for separate administrative arrangements for the Isles of Scilly, independent of Cornwall.
TK complaint to C24 Moderator: 'Unsourced - and falsely presented as own when merely lifted without accreditaton from somewhere else'.Note to Moderator-please delete Shagger's posts where material from elsewhere is falsely posted by Shagger as if his/her/its own to create a false impression of erudition when the contrary is more than evidently the case and until he/she/it learns to apply proper protocols.Please also delete this post from TK when that has been done. Ta.

MaliAft4
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Re: Cornish Devolution Now

Post by MaliAft4 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:01 am

It is illegal to die in the Houses of Parliament

It is an act of treason to place a postage stamp bearing the British monarch upside-down.

In Liverpool, it is illegal for a woman to be topless except as a clerk in a tropical fish store.

Mince pies cannot be eaten on Christmas Day - Cromwell's laws repealed

In Scotland, if someone knocks on your door and requires the use of your toilet, you must let them enter

A pregnant woman can legally relieve herself anywhere she wants, including in a policeman’s helmet

The head of any dead whale found on the British coast automatically becomes the property of the king, and the tail of the queen

It is illegal to avoid telling the tax man anything you do not want him to know, but legal not to tell him information you do not mind him knowing

It is illegal to enter the Houses of Parliament in a suit of armour

In the city of York it is legal to murder a Scotsman within the ancient city walls, but only if he is carrying a bow and arrow
If you believe the majority of these are true, I'd seriously be questioning my ability to grasp any legal concept of any depth.

Fulub-le-Breton
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Re: Cornish Devolution Now

Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:44 pm

Anyway - back on the subject of devolution - Now time for devolution to spread: http://thisismytruth.org/2011/04/13/now ... to-spread/

Cornish comments needed.

Fulub-le-Breton
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Re: Cornish Devolution Now

Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:15 pm

Even more chance for Cornish comment but no one seems in the slight bit interested in promoting our cause to the wider world. Bickering on here is far more fun it seems. :(

From click on Wales : The interdependence of devolution and progressive politics: http://www.clickonwales.org/2011/04/int ... -politics/

From Renewal : Beyond the Westminster Model: http://www.renewal.org.uk/articles/beyo ... ter-model/

From Prospect Magazine : The Story of England : http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2010/ ... nd-review/

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